Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:24:02 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:24:01 -0400 Received: from madhouse.demon.co.uk ([158.152.8.97]:51413 "EHLO madhouse.demon.co.uk") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:23:53 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:16:15 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Bray Reply-To: Andrew Bray To: Matti Aarnio cc: Andrew Bray , Subject: Re: ADMIN: DON'T try to be clever with email headers! In-Reply-To: <20020913173709.GG30392@mea-ext.zmailer.org> Message-ID: Organization: Private Internet Node MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3976 Lines: 98 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi Matti, On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Matti Aarnio wrote: > Folks, when aiming to post into VGER's lists, DO NOT > try to make any cute things in headers. Any such > are bound to cause TONS of bounces, which did happen > in this particular case... > > This is particularly important when posting patches.. > > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 03:49:01PM +0000, Andrew Bray wrote: > > To: > > From: abuse@madhouse.demon.co.uk (Andrew Bray) > > Subject: Re: [PATCH] drivers/pci,hamradio,scsi,aic7xxx,video,zorro clean and mrproper files 4/6 > > Date: 13 Sep 2002 15:49:01 GMT > > Organization: Private Internet Node > > Message-ID: > > Reply-To: andy@@chaos.org.uk I object! There is nothing 'cute' in this header, and I didn't post a patch, just a comment on one. It was entirely correct SMTP, with a truly unique message ID and all addresses were valid for sending replies (From:, and Reply-To:), and all arrive to me. The SMTP envelope from address (which you didn't include) is another valid address which I don't expect to cause trouble: mail-list@madhouse). abuse@madhouse is a perfectly valid e-mail address on this machine, and andy@chaos is an address which will always reach me, even if I leave demon. I chose abuse as an address, because I have received many spam messages offering 'cleaned' address lists where obvious 'trap-door' addresses were filtered out - 'abuse@' was explicitely mentioned. This I count as a success, because, despite using abuse@ in the From: address in all news and mailing list postings for six years, only 14% of my incoming spam is sent to abuse@madhouse. (Interestingly, only 1% of incoming spam is sent to my Reply-To: address). I cannot imagine why folks would want to trap abuse as a From: address, because in the thousands of spam messagess I have received over the last ten years, NONE have had abuse in either the envelope from address, or the SMTP From: header. abuse is traditionally a destination address for reporting abuse to ISPs, for example demon have an email address for reporting abuse by customers which is abuse@demon.co.uk I argue that the bounces are coming from mis-configured MTAs, as: 1) They should be bouncing on the envelope-from address rather than the From: header, as the envelope address is more likely to be valid. MTAs shoud regard the From: address as a comment, because it is so readily forged. 2) abuse is a silly address to trap, as it just doesn't happen in spam. I use a threading news reader to read linux-kernel, and the scripts I use can easily munge the From: address to point back to the processor (I belong to some mailing lists that only accept postings from the address that is registered), but then then the mail would have a From: address that isn't read by a human, which in my opinion is real abuse. This mailing list is gatewayed to a number if widely available usenet newsgroups, so I am loath to return to using my 'real' address in the From: header. Regards, Andy - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Bray, PWMS, MA, | preferred: mailto:andy@chaos.org.uk London, England | or: mailto:andy@madhouse.demon.co.uk PGP id/fingerprint: D811F5C9/26 B5 42 C6 F4 00 B2 71 BA EA 9B 81 6C 65 59 07 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBPYJx0kjMoRfYEfXJAQFV1AP8DPA4kWPQ3xHYMiRK7c4vdhRg9DzKt/TP yuEIZQkYBv1F+Lhv7kuNsQ5f8VkREYF0MvBih+liMIRIRBZqbxofwnm/59+rz/aZ GrpwSPXm3cCbkC9eyuTDTlTcdNmoGk5sVwyirLBYHb4mr8mvpJM9dE6ND2KoaLjS gTEqNIjjfxU= =fZlb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/