Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755741Ab3CFVZA (ORCPT ); Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:25:00 -0500 Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.216.51]:56109 "EHLO mail-qa0-f51.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751030Ab3CFVY6 (ORCPT ); Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:24:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:24:52 -0800 From: Tejun Heo To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Oleg Nesterov , Jeff Layton , "Myklebust, Trond" , Mandeep Singh Baines , Ming Lei , "J. Bruce Fields" , Linux Kernel Mailing List , "linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org" , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Andrew Morton , Ingo Molnar , Al Viro Subject: Re: LOCKDEP: 3.9-rc1: mount.nfs/4272 still has locks held! Message-ID: <20130306212452.GO1227@htj.dyndns.org> References: <20130305082308.6607d4db@tlielax.poochiereds.net> <20130305174648.GF12795@htj.dyndns.org> <20130305174954.GG12795@htj.dyndns.org> <20130305140312.243cb094@tlielax.poochiereds.net> <20130305190923.GI12795@htj.dyndns.org> <20130305183941.19ff39ce@tlielax.poochiereds.net> <20130305234700.GE1227@htj.dyndns.org> <20130306181608.GA18687@redhat.com> <20130306185304.GM1227@htj.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2936 Lines: 64 Hello, Linus. On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 01:00:02PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > Oh yeah, we don't need another signal. We just need sigpending state > > and a wakeup. I wasn't really going into details. The important > > point is that for code paths outside signal/ptrace, freezing could > > look and behave about the same as signal delivery. > > Don't we already do that? The whole "try_to_freeze()" in > get_signal_to_deliver() is about exactly this. See > fake_signal_wake_up(). Yeap, that was what I had in mind too. Maybe we'll need to modify it slightly but we already have most of the basic stuff. > You still have kernel threads (that don't do signals) to worry about, > so it doesn't make things go away. And you still have issues with > latency of disk wait, which is, I think, the reason for that > "freezable_schedule()" in the NFS code to begin with. I haven't thought about it for quite some time so things are hazy, but here's what I can recall now. With syscall paths out of the way, the surface is reduced a lot. Another part is converting most freezable kthread users to freezable workqueue which provides natural resource boundaries (the duration of work item execution). kthread is already difficult to get the synchronization completely right and significant number of freezable + should_stop users are subtly broken the last time I went over the freezer users. I think we would be much better off converting most over to freezable workqueues which is easier to get right and likely to be less expensive. Freezing happens at work item boundary which in most cases could be made to coincide with the original freezer check point. There could be kthreads which can't be converted to workqueue for whatever reason (there shouldn't be many at this point) but most freezer usages in kthreads are pretty simple. It's usually single or a couple freezer check points in the main loop. While we may still need special handling for them, I don't think they're likely to have implications on issues like this. We probably would want to handle restart for freezable kthreads calling syscalls. Haven't thought about this one too much yet. Maybe freezable kthreads doing syscalls just need to be ready for -ERESTARTSYS? I'm not sure I follow the disk wait latency part. Are you saying that switching to jobctl trap based freezer implementation wouldn't help them? If so, right, it doesn't in itself. It's just changing the infrastructure used for freezing and can't make the underlying synchronization issues just disappear but at least it becomes the same problem as being responsive to SIGKILL rather than a completely separate problem. Thanks. -- tejun -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/