Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:09:56 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:09:56 -0400 Received: from bitmover.com ([192.132.92.2]:17281 "EHLO mail.bitmover.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:09:55 -0400 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 12:15:27 -0700 From: Larry McVoy To: Lars Marowsky-Bree Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: New BK License Problem? Message-ID: <20021005121527.A11375@work.bitmover.com> Mail-Followup-To: Larry McVoy , Lars Marowsky-Bree , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <20021004140802.E24148@work.bitmover.com> <20021005175437.GK585@phunnypharm.org> <20021005112552.A9032@work.bitmover.com> <20021005184153.GJ17492@marowsky-bree.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20021005184153.GJ17492@marowsky-bree.de>; from lmb@suse.de on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 08:41:53PM +0200 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3576 Lines: 64 > I'd suggest that you need to have an interoperability clause for Open Source > software. Otherwise using BK for kernel development suddenly seems like a very > bad idea, because the community has suddenly been locked out of developing a > free SCM (ie, working on CVS, Subversion etc); he couldn't be an effective > kernel developer today (ie, using BK) and also continue working on the other > open source project... > > You know I am rather fond of BK and your goals in general, but that would just > suck. BitKeeper is a *business*. What you are saying is "it would suck if you wouldn't allow the use of BitKeeper in the development of products which would make that business die." It may suck that Ben can't use BK to try and put BK out of business. It would suck a whole lot worse, in our view, to allow him to do so. I'm sympathetic to the fact that this means that people who are both working on the kernel and competing with us can't use BK, that does suck. But we thought of that, that's why BK is so friendly to external systems, it's why BK is happy to both import and export regular patches. If you think about it, Ben is absolutely no worse off than he was before BK was used. He can get the same patches he always got. He can work the same way he always did. The only thing that has changed from Ben's point of view is that Linus is a little less stressed out and somewhat less likely to drop a patch. It's a net positive for Ben. Not as big of one as being able to use BK, perhaps, but it hasn't hurt Ben's ability to contribute to the kernel one iota. It's Ben's choice to compete with us. Yes, we're forcing you to choose between competing with us or using BK as a way of contributing to the kernel. I could see that that would suck if Linus refused to take regular patches, or even if he slowed down on taking regular patches. But he doesn't, he hasn't, he's actually sped up. And he's committed to taking regular patches, there are people out there who oppose the BKL on grounds that they want a completely free tool chain. Both Linus and I respect that, take a look at bk-3.0 when it comes out, it's got much improved (both performance and reliability) GNU patch import abilities. We've spent money to support people who don't want to use BK, it's not just lip service. I'm not against people having a go at reimplementing BK. But you had better believe that I'm against helping them, they are actively trying to destroy our company. No company is under any obligation, moral, ethical, or legal, to be self destructive when they are doing nothing wrong. What you are saying is that it sucks that we don't want to help put ourselves out of business. If that sucks, so be it. I think some people here are under the mistaken impression that BK is my hobby sort of like LMbench was my hobby. It's not a hobby. It's a business. It would take medium sized bus to hold all the people who depend on BK for their livelihood. What you are asking for is for us to allow and aid in work which would materially damage our business. That's nuts, it's absolutely out of the question, it's way past the point of being a reasonable thing to expect. If you can't see that, I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/