Message-ID: <3DA247F3.B1150369@digeo.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:50:27 -0700
From: Andrew Morton <akpm@digeo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Simon Kirby <sim@netnation.com>
CC: Chris Friesen <cfriesen@nortelnetworks.com>,
       Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de>,
       "Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@aracnet.com>,
       Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.name>, Rob Landley <landley@trommello.org>,
       Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The reason to call it 3.0 is the desktop (was Re: [OT] 2.6 not 3.0 
 -  (NUMA))
References: <m17yCIx-006hSwC@Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE> <1281002684.1033892373@[10.10.2.3]> <E17ybuZ-0003tz-00@starship> <3DA1D30E.B3255E7D@digeo.com> <3DA1D969.8050005@nortelnetworks.com> <3DA1E250.1C5F7220@digeo.com> <20021008023654.GA29076@netnation.com>
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Simon Kirby wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 12:36:48PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> 
> > Block allocators are fertile grounds for academic papers.  It's
> > complex.  There is a risk that you can do something which is
> > cool in testing, but ends up exploding horridly after a year's
> > use.  By which time we have ten million deployed systems running like
> > dogs, damn all we can do about it.
> >
> > The best solution is to use first-fit and online defrag to fix the
> > long-term fragmentation.  It really is.  There has been no appreciable
> > progress on this.
> >
> > A *practical* solution is to keep a spare partition empty and do
> > a `cp -a' from one partition onto another once per week and
> > swizzle the mountpoints.  Because the big copy will unfragment
> > everything.
> 
> Having seen fragmentation issues build up on (mbox) mail spools over
> several years first hand, I can say that mail spools definitely show the
> need for a defragmentation tool.  I remember actually doing the "cp -a"
> trick just to restore the mail server to decent performance (which
> worked amazingly well, for another few months).  (This was before we
> switched to hashed directories and a POP3 server which caches mbox
> messages offsets/UIDLs/states.)

Oh tell me about it.

Appended is the offset->block mapping for my "linux-kernel" mailbox.
Read it and weep...

> Being able to defragment online would be very useful.  I've seen some
> people talk about this every so often.  How far away is it?
> 

At the current rate of progress, I'd say that your grandkids will
just love it.

I have the core code for ext3.  It's at
http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/2.4/2.4.19-pre10/ext3-reloc-page.patch
I never tested it, but that's a formality ;)

It offers a simple ioctl to reloate a single page's worth of blocks.
It's fully journalled and recoverable, pagecache coherent, etc.
But the userspace application which calls that ioctl hasn't been
written.


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