Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:56:28 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:56:28 -0400 Received: from smtp-outbound.cwctv.net ([213.104.18.10]:25899 "EHLO smtp.cwctv.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:56:25 -0400 From: To: jw@pegasys.ws, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:01:58 +0100 Subject: RE:Re: The end of embedded Linux? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Liberate TVMail 2.6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1034082118740" Message-ID: <0a5b347591208a2DTVMAIL4@smtp.cwctv.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 6957 Lines: 156 --1034082118740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If its a personal project, use nothing, not even RMS would care[probably]. Cheers, Dean. On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:27:19 -0700 jw schultz wrote: --1034082118740 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.116.70.75]) by smtp.cwctv.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44); Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:29:59 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:21:47 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:21:46 -0400 Received: from vladimir.pegasys.ws ([64.220.160.58]:49677 "HELO vladimir.pegasys.ws") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:21:42 -0400 Received: from leto.pegasys.ws (leto.pegasys.ws [10.1.1.20]) by vladimir.pegasys.ws (Mail Transfer Agent) with ESMTP id 7F6FDDF2C for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duncan.pegasys.ws (duncan.pegasys.ws [10.1.1.50]) by leto.pegasys.ws (Mail Transfer Agent) with ESMTP id C7585188 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by duncan.pegasys.ws (Postfix on SuSE Linux 8.0 (i386), from userid 1001) id B0ABD4AF3; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:27:19 -0700 From: jw schultz To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: The end of embedded Linux? Message-ID: <20021008112719.GC6537@pegasys.ws> Mail-Followup-To: jw schultz , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <3DA1CF36.19659.13D4209@localhost> <3DA2BD70.14919.2C6951@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3DA2BD70.14919.2C6951@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: linux-kernel-owner+Hell.Surfers=40cwctv.net@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 11:11:44AM +0100, simon@baydel.com wrote: > The UART and Interrupt controllers in question are built into a gate > array. I can't see how any external or parts from other vendors > would be compatible. To get the board to boot Linux I have to > modify the kernel and lilo. I understand that under the GPL rules I > would have to make this code available. I am willing to do this but I > don't see the point. The point is that is the license fee. Under the BSD license the fee is giving credit. For Microsoft and other closed-source/propietary licenses the fee is in money. With the GPL the consideration (legal term under contract law) or fee that you pay is to make the source of your modifications and derivitave works available. Most of the time that is a fairly inexpensive fee. If you wish to negotiate a different fee all you have to do is get every contributor to agree to a seperate license for you. You are free (libre) to try but i think it would be cheaper to go elsewhere. > There is also more specialized hardware for which I have written > modules. Although there appears to be some unwritten rule about > releasing objects, I believe that the GPL rules state that these > modules must conform to the GPL also, as they contain header > files. I cannot see how any module can not contain Linux headers > or headers derived from Linux headers if it is to be loaded on a > Linux kernel. Leave headers aside for the moment. There is a tolerance (barely) of binary modules distributed largely because they suit the purposes of linux (world domination, haha). Using binary only modules that don't benefit that will draw the ire (if not prosecution) of the community. > These modules again drive gate array hardware for which nobody > else will ever have a compatible. Although I would dearly love to > use Linux as the platform for my project I feel I cannot release this > code under the GPL. The fact that may be custom hardware that no-one else will every have access to isn't relevant to the licence. The general concensus is that very few embedded projects are really all that dependant on such specialized hardware. > This is my dilemma and I am sure it is shared by others. For this > reason I cannot see how anything but an embedded PC with > applications or a perhaps a very simple hardware device could be > considered as an opportunity for embedded Linux. It isn't much of a dilema. It is just a simple choice you have to make. Do you create your own OS? Or if you choose to buy one, which license terms are best for you. Of course you are free to use linux for prototyping and product developement. The publication requirements only come into play when you distribute. If you choose to use linux to help develop your product and then distribute with a different OS then linux has helped to enlarge the GGP (Gross Global Product) and that is still good. > I have based these thoughts on my experiences so far. If you feel I > have drawn an incorrect conclusion I would be grateful for your > input. They may be correct conclusions for yourself. Only you can judge that. I doubt that they are correct generalizations. There are some things i would think about before rejecting linux on such a basis. Nothing prevents you from putting a firmware layer underneath linux or putting a bit more intelegence in your device and then providing a free driver that can interface with it. You may be able to put the intellegence of your hardware control in a user-space process with elevated priority. You might look into something like using the adeos nano-kernel to host linux and the device controll software as seperate contexts with a communications interface between them. There are so many ways to get linux and proprietary software and hardware to talk to each other it seems silly to reject it just because one of way bears license terms you don't like. If you wish to use linux and contribute good. If you wish to go away that is your choice. If you wish to whine, see option two. In either case good luck with your project. -- ________________________________________________________________ J.W. Schultz Pegasystems Technologies email address: jw@pegasys.ws Remember Cernan and Schmitt - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ --1034082118740-- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/