Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:27:08 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:27:08 -0400 Received: from smtp-outbound.cwctv.net ([213.104.18.10]:61241 "EHLO smtp.cwctv.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:27:03 -0400 From: To: david.lang@digitalinsight.com, simon@baydel.com, alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:32:25 +0100 Subject: RE:Re: The end of embedded Linux? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Liberate TVMail 2.6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1034094745201" Message-ID: <03be754301608a2DTVMAIL5@smtp.cwctv.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 6492 Lines: 156 --1034094745201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nobody said if you GPL it they would have to put it in the kernel... Cheers, Dean. On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:52:49 -0700 (PDT) David Lang wrote: --1034094745201 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.116.70.75]) by smtp.cwctv.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44); Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:20:03 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:06:01 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:05:56 -0400 Received: from [209.195.52.120] ([209.195.52.120]:60900 "HELO warden2.diginsite.com") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:05:54 -0400 Received: from no.name.available by warden2.diginsite.com via smtpd (for vger.kernel.org [209.116.70.75]) with SMTP; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:09:55 -0700 Received: from atlexc01.digitalinsight.com ([10.2.43.7]) by atlims01.digitalinsight.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with ESMTP id com; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:16:03 -0400 Received: by atlexc01.diginsite.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4LX430XF>; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:05:30 -0400 Received: from dlang.diginsite.com ([10.201.10.67]) by wlvexc00.digitalinsight.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4LXG671L; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:00:39 -0700 From: David Lang To: simon@baydel.com Cc: Alan Cox , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: The end of embedded Linux? In-Reply-To: <3DA2BD70.14919.2C6951@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: linux-kernel-owner+Hell.Surfers=40cwctv.net@vger.kernel.org note that you are allowed to distribute a binary-only module as long as you don't use the GPL-only kernel symbols. Linus has stated that he doesn't view use of the header files as enough to make a module a dirivitive work (others disagree, but there are a number of binary modules out there) check the archives for the various flame wars over this issue. David Lang On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 simon@baydel.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:11:44 +0100 > From: simon@baydel.com > To: Alan Cox > Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > Subject: Re: The end of embedded Linux? > > On 7 Oct 2002, at 21:22, Alan Cox wrote: > > > On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 18:15, simon@baydel.com wrote: > > > a serial port and an interupt controller. What I was trying to explain > > > was that I would not mind making my code available for these > > > kernel changes. Although I don't understand why anyone would > > > want it. Apart from API changes, why do this ? The kernel is not > > > easily or frequently changed on this type of system. It would bloat > > > the kernel and I would expect to have to address problems of this > > > nature myself. However I would not like to make code available for > > > the more specialised hardware. > > > > That depends how specialized the hardware actually is. I think I've see > > six different non free implementations of 68360 sync serial code around > > all proprietary for example. > > > > The UART and Interrupt controllers in question are built into a gate > array. I can't see how any external or parts from other vendors > would be compatible. To get the board to boot Linux I have to > modify the kernel and lilo. I understand that under the GPL rules I > would have to make this code available. I am willing to do this but I > don't see the point. > > There is also more specialized hardware for which I have written > modules. Although there appears to be some unwritten rule about > releasing objects, I believe that the GPL rules state that these > modules must conform to the GPL also, as they contain header > files. I cannot see how any module can not contain Linux headers > or headers derived from Linux headers if it is to be loaded on a > Linux kernel. > > These modules again drive gate array hardware for which nobody > else will ever have a compatible. Although I would dearly love to > use Linux as the platform for my project I feel I cannot release this > code under the GPL. > > This is my dilemma and I am sure it is shared by others. For this > reason I cannot see how anything but an embedded PC with > applications or a perhaps a very simple hardware device could be > considered as an opportunity for embedded Linux. > > I have based these thoughts on my experiences so far. If you feel I > have drawn an incorrect conclusion I would be grateful for your > input. > > > Many Thanks > > Simon. > > > > > Also my original comments were much more aimed at the core stuff. People > > who made existing and especially core stuff smaller could send the stuff > > out. Several of us want to compile a CONFIG_TINY option, and suprisingly > > enough small is good on high end boxes. My L1 cache is 8 times faster > > than my L2 cache is 7 times faster than my memory. Or to put it another > > way, going to main memory costs me maybe 100 instructions. > > > > My Athlon thinks small is good too! > > > > > __________________________ > > Simon Haynes - Baydel > Phone : 44 (0) 1372 378811 > Email : simon@baydel.com > __________________________ > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ --1034094745201-- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/