Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S934096Ab3GPVXu (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:23:50 -0400 Received: from mail-ea0-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:33067 "EHLO mail-ea0-f173.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S934073Ab3GPVXr (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:23:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20130716210856.GF4994@xanatos> References: <20130715155202.GC29526@xanatos> <20130715174659.GC15531@xanatos> <20130715180403.GD15531@xanatos> <20130715184642.GE15531@xanatos> <20130715191727.GC10157@1wt.eu> <8738rf14zl.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> <20130716210856.GF4994@xanatos> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:23:46 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zyWtinah-q1bRfzZihfzYCEmJY8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review From: Linus Torvalds To: Sarah Sharp Cc: Rusty Russell , Willy Tarreau , Ingo Molnar , Guenter Roeck , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Steven Rostedt , Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Andrew Morton , stable , Darren Hart , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , "Rafael J. Wysocki" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2386 Lines: 56 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > I do, however, object when the verbal abuse shifts from being directed > at code to being directed at *people*. For example, Linus chose to > curse at Mauro [2] and Rafael [3], rather than their code: Umm. Because it was actually the person who was the problem? Trust me, there's a really easy way for me to curse at people: if you are a maintainer, and you make excuses for your bugs rather than trying to fix them, I will curse at *YOU*. Because then the problem really is you. And in *both* of the examples you cite, that was exactly the issue. It wasn't that there was a bug - it was that the maintainer in question basically refused to fix a regression. Sure, there was a code problem. But that wasn't the big issue. Code can be broken, and can be utter crap, but as long as it's fixed, who cares? But when top-level maintainers start ignoring the #1 rule in the kernel ("We don't regress user space"), then it's not the broken code that annoys me any more. See the difference? And yes, people who don't get this are people who I will literally refuse to work with. In both of the cases you cite, things resolved themselves quickly (in fact, with Rafael it was at least partially just bad communication, and I haven't had that issue with him before). Other people, who seem to treat regressions cavalierly, I will first make it *very* clear that it is unacceptable, and then I will refuse to take their patches. It has happened. And yes, if that's the reason some person doesn't like working with the kernel ("Linus screams at me when I break things and don't want to fix them"), then dammit, good f*cking riddance. I already saw exactly that comment on G+ earlier today - somebody who is well-known for not fixing his regressions ("fix your user instead") was talking about how he doesn't want to work with me for that very reason. So apparently my cursing works. Seriously, Sarah, you need to get off this "you can't curse at people". Because you *can* curse at people, and it very much is sometimes called for. Linus -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/