Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S933701Ab3GPWkA (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:40:00 -0400 Received: from mga09.intel.com ([134.134.136.24]:57618 "EHLO mga09.intel.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752741Ab3GPWj6 (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:39:58 -0400 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,679,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="346676977" Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:39:57 -0700 From: Sarah Sharp To: Willy Tarreau Cc: Olivier Galibert , David Lang , Steven Rostedt , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar , Guenter Roeck , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Andrew Morton , stable , Darren Hart , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Message-ID: <20130716223957.GJ4994@xanatos> References: <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <1373926109.17876.221.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130715223615.GI15531@xanatos> <20130716211235.GG4994@xanatos> <20130716221821.GB21611@1wt.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130716221821.GB21611@1wt.eu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2229 Lines: 45 On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:18:21AM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > I *hate* both direct personal insults and indirect personal insults. > > Neither should be acceptable in our community. > > > > As I stated in an email to Rusty, what I'm objecting to here is not > > kernel developers criticizing code. I'm objecting to personal attacks, > > and developers directing personal verbal abuse towards each other. This > > include all developers, not just Linus. > > Well, there are people like me who don't mind getting personally > insulted but who are really pained when their work is criticized. > > You'd rather tell me I'm a fucking moron than all what I carefully > designed, wrote and tested is pure crap. Probably that part of the > reason is that I'm as I am and I'm not really responsible for this, > so I don't care. Call me ugly if you want, why should I bother ? But > if you tell me I did some crap, it's entirely my fault and that hurts > a lot more. I think we come from different perspectives here. I can change my code. Therefore, I don't mind my code being insulted. I cannot change myself. Therefore, I don't want to read verbal abuse directed at me personally. Things get blurred when we're talking about something a person did. I can change how I act as a maintainer. Therefore, tell me politely what I did wrong, and I will change it. > So you want criticism to change focus for good, but it will not > necessarily achieve the result you're expecting. Maybe we can lose > more talented people by telling them their work is pure crap because > we did not understand it than telling them they're stupid and let > them argument their choices. At least I don't claim to know which > one is better, all I can say is that what we have right now works > well enough in my opinion. We can tell them their code is bad without calling it crap. Cussing them out is just a lazy shortcut. Sarah Sharp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/