Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751264Ab3GQBhu (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:37:50 -0400 Received: from mail-ve0-f180.google.com ([209.85.128.180]:45020 "EHLO mail-ve0-f180.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750971Ab3GQBhs (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:37:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <878v16yp57.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> References: <20130715155202.GC29526@xanatos> <20130715174659.GC15531@xanatos> <20130715180403.GD15531@xanatos> <20130715184642.GE15531@xanatos> <20130715191727.GC10157@1wt.eu> <8738rf14zl.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> <20130716210856.GF4994@xanatos> <878v16yp57.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:37:47 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zatnQQTgPPTocefssYIm45f5mmk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review From: Linus Torvalds To: Rusty Russell Cc: Sarah Sharp , Willy Tarreau , Ingo Molnar , Guenter Roeck , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Steven Rostedt , Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Andrew Morton , stable , Darren Hart , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , "Rafael J. Wysocki" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2398 Lines: 54 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Rusty Russell wrote: >> >> "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!" > > This one crosses the line. There's no non-offensive way to tell a geek > "you are wrong", but this isn't even trying. Bad Linus! You know what? Not my proudest moment. I was really upset. But that said, in my defense I actually think that one stands out. I have written a lot of public emails, and that one line is probably the single most over-the-line one. Or at least pretty close to the top. And it's not so much because of the swearing, but because of the "shut up" part. Or is that just me not reacting to swearwords again? Do I go overboard sometimes? Hell yes. But I get emotional about some of this, and I not only think that's ok, I actually think it's important. You mentioned the "lost the raw, red-hot anger of the original", and I do think emotion is important to convey. It's not just the message, it's also the fact that I'm really really pissed. Neil Brown here somewhere earlier said "So my personal perspective on what it means to be responsible is: Don't flame: include the facts, exclude the emotion." and I can't overstate how much I disagree. You do need the factual part too, but "exclude the emotion" is not good either. Emotions aren't bad. Quite the reverse. If we are expected to have a sense of personal trust between the people involved (and quite frankly, apart from just "technical excellence" I think personal trust is just about the top criterion for good maintainers), I definitely think that it's not about just about the facts. You need to hear the *person* too. And some people are calm and don't swear, and that's them. Others aren't. Yeah, yeah, I go overboard. Whatever. At least you guys know that when I get emotional, I'm not going to come asking for a shoulder to cry on. I think a little excessive swearing is less awkward for everybody in the end. Linus Side note: the whole "trust the person" doesn't mean you have to like that person. "Trust" is about having your expectations met, not necessarily about those expectations always being all that positive. . -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/