Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752620Ab3GQHh0 (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:37:26 -0400 Received: from mx3-phx2.redhat.com ([209.132.183.24]:53137 "EHLO mx3-phx2.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752528Ab3GQHhY convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:37:24 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:36:36 -0400 (EDT) From: CAI Qian To: Trond Myklebust Cc: Ric Wheeler , Sarah Sharp , David Lang , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Ingo Molnar , Olivier Galibert , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Message-ID: <1000066089.1803398.1374046596236.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <1374018809.2249.29.camel@leira.trondhjem.org> References: <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <20130716211235.GG4994@xanatos> <20130716212704.GB9371@thunk.org> <20130716224357.GK4994@xanatos> <1374015299.6458.76.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130716231217.GL4994@xanatos> <51E5D7C8.5000306@gmail.com> <1374018809.2249.29.camel@leira.trondhjem.org> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Originating-IP: [10.5.82.12] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.3_GA_5664 (ZimbraWebClient - FF20 (Linux)/8.0.3_GA_5664) Thread-Topic: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Thread-Index: AQHOgnyhuQh8jTV/+kG8V/CLVwm7h5lob7aApcR/YSY= Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4030 Lines: 80 ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trond Myklebust" > To: "Ric Wheeler" > Cc: "Sarah Sharp" , "David Lang" , > ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, "Greg Kroah-Hartman" , "Darren Hart" > , "Ingo Molnar" , "Olivier Galibert" , "Linux Kernel > Mailing List" , "stable" , "Linus Torvalds" > , "Willy Tarreau" > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:53:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML > > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote: > > On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > >> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > >> > > >>> Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating > > >>> their > > >>> comments and tone towards individuals who are "sensitive". Others > > >>> simply don't give a shit. So we need to figure out how to meet > > >>> somewhere in the middle, in order to establish a baseline of civility. > > >> I have to ask this because I'm thick, and don't really understand, > > >> but ... > > >> > > >> What problem exactly are we trying to solve here? > > > Personal attacks are not cool Steve. Some people simply don't care if a > > > verbal tirade is directed at them. Others do not want anyone to attack > > > them personally, but they're fine with people attacking their code. > > > > > > Bystanders that don't understand the kernel community structure are > > > discouraged from contributing because they don't want to be verbally > > > abused, and they really don't want to see either personal attacks or > > > intense belittling, demeaning comments about code. > > > > > > In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where the > > > baseline of "good" behavior is. We need to define what behavior we want > > > from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. "No regressions" and > > > "don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks". That needs to be > > > written down somewhere, and it isn't. If it's documented somewhere, > > > point me to the file in Documentation. Hint: it's not there. > > > > > > That is the problem. > > > > > > Sarah Sharp > > > > The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less > > effective > > as a community. > > Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this > community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and > have no problems with it. > > Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting > _new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some > journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy > comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy > newbies. > On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people > of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of > a social scientist to help us find out... Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture? > > -- > Trond Myklebust > Linux NFS client maintainer > > NetApp > Trond.Myklebust@netapp.com > www.netapp.com > N�����r��y���b�X��ǧv�^�)޺{.n�+������z)���w*jg��������ݢj/���z�ޖ��2�ޙ���&�)ߡ�a�����G���h��j:+v���w�٥ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/