Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755881Ab3GQOtE (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:49:04 -0400 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([143.182.124.21]:5311 "EHLO mga03.intel.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932121Ab3GQOs6 (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:48:58 -0400 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,685,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="269518310" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 07:48:49 -0700 From: Sarah Sharp To: CAI Qian Cc: Trond Myklebust , Ric Wheeler , David Lang , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Ingo Molnar , Olivier Galibert , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Message-ID: <20130717144849.GB16513@xanatos> References: <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <20130716211235.GG4994@xanatos> <20130716212704.GB9371@thunk.org> <20130716224357.GK4994@xanatos> <1374015299.6458.76.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130716231217.GL4994@xanatos> <51E5D7C8.5000306@gmail.com> <1374018809.2249.29.camel@leira.trondhjem.org> <1000066089.1803398.1374046596236.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1000066089.1803398.1374046596236.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3001 Lines: 61 On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:36:36AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote: > > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote: > > > On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > > > In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where the > > > > baseline of "good" behavior is. We need to define what behavior we want > > > > from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. "No regressions" and > > > > "don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks". That needs to be > > > > written down somewhere, and it isn't. If it's documented somewhere, > > > > point me to the file in Documentation. Hint: it's not there. > > > > > > > > That is the problem. > > > > > > > > Sarah Sharp > > > > > > The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less > > > effective > > > as a community. > > > > Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this > > community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and > > have no problems with it. > > > > Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting > > _new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some > > journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy > > comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy > > newbies. > > > > On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people > > of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of > > a social scientist to help us find out... > > Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin > new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe > just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture? No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with shit". We need a better pipeline for people who can work together civilly, and still get shit done. I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development, through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women. They slowly get introduced to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists. We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have even more the next round. So deal with it. You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal abuse. If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop. Sarah Sharp -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/