Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1758113Ab3GRDBg (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 23:01:36 -0400 Received: from mx3-phx2.redhat.com ([209.132.183.24]:45547 "EHLO mx3-phx2.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752087Ab3GRDBe (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 23:01:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 23:00:54 -0400 (EDT) From: CAI Qian To: Sarah Sharp Cc: Trond Myklebust , Ric Wheeler , David Lang , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Ingo Molnar , Olivier Galibert , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Message-ID: <1913177574.2417392.1374116454346.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20130717144849.GB16513@xanatos> References: <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <20130716224357.GK4994@xanatos> <1374015299.6458.76.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130716231217.GL4994@xanatos> <51E5D7C8.5000306@gmail.com> <1374018809.2249.29.camel@leira.trondhjem.org> <1000066089.1803398.1374046596236.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> <20130717144849.GB16513@xanatos> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.5.82.12] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.3_GA_5664 (ZimbraWebClient - FF20 (Linux)/8.0.3_GA_5664) Thread-Topic: How to act on LKML Thread-Index: 0ak6UtPbtOOzm2X/44qbS3Q3Eku1kA== Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4174 Lines: 84 ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Sharp" > To: "CAI Qian" > Cc: "Trond Myklebust" , "Ric Wheeler" , "David Lang" > , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, "Greg Kroah-Hartman" , > "Darren Hart" , "Ingo Molnar" , "Olivier Galibert" , > "Linux Kernel Mailing List" , "stable" , "Linus Torvalds" > , "Willy Tarreau" > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 10:48:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 03:36:36AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote: > > > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:31 -0400, Ric Wheeler wrote: > > > > On 07/16/2013 07:12 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > > > >> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > > > > In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where > > > > > the > > > > > baseline of "good" behavior is. We need to define what behavior we > > > > > want > > > > > from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. "No regressions" > > > > > and > > > > > "don't break userspace" and "no personal attacks". That needs to be > > > > > written down somewhere, and it isn't. If it's documented somewhere, > > > > > point me to the file in Documentation. Hint: it's not there. > > > > > > > > > > That is the problem. > > > > > > > > > > Sarah Sharp > > > > > > > > The problem you are pointing out - and it is a problem - makes us less > > > > effective > > > > as a community. > > > > > > Not really. Most of the people who already work as part of this > > > community are completely used to it. We've created the environment, and > > > have no problems with it. > > > > > > Where it could possibly be a problem is when it comes to recruiting > > > _new_ members to our community. Particularly so given that some > > > journalists take a special pleasure in reporting particularly juicy > > > comments and antics. That would tend to scare off a lot of gun-shy > > > newbies. > > > > > > On the other hand, it might tend to bias our recruitment toward people > > > of a more "special" disposition. Perhaps we finally need the services of > > > a social scientist to help us find out... > > > > Does that sound like there are not going to have enough direct/thick skin > > new kernel developers around to maintain the future Linux community? Maybe > > just need a better pipeline for people comfortable for this culture? > > No, we don't need a better pipeline for people who can "put up with > shit". We need a better pipeline for people who can work together > civilly, and still get shit done. > > I'm working on getting a pipeline of women into kernel development, > through the FOSS Outreach Program for Women. They slowly get introduced > to Linux development culture, starting with a very friendly separate > mailing list and IRC channel, and finally moving to work with a kernel > mentor on a bigger project on the main Linux kernel development lists. > We have seven women participating this round, and I suspect we'll have > even more the next round. > > So deal with it. You're going to have a lot more women in the kernel > community, and not all of them will be willing to put up with verbal > abuse. If you want to attract top talent that also happen to be women > or racial minorities, the verbal abuse needs to stop. Maybe we need something like this? http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct > > Sarah Sharp > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe stable" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/