Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1757809Ab3GYSGE (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:06:04 -0400 Received: from avon.wwwdotorg.org ([70.85.31.133]:34283 "EHLO avon.wwwdotorg.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1757016Ab3GYSFw (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 Jul 2013 14:05:52 -0400 Message-ID: <51F168FC.9070906@wwwdotorg.org> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:05:48 -0700 From: Stephen Warren User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Rutland CC: Olof Johansson , Catalin Marinas , "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Russell King - ARM Linux , Samuel Ortiz , Domenico Andreoli , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Dave P Martin , "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" , Rob Herring , Pawel Moll , Ian Campbell Subject: Re: DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] References: <20130725175702.GC22291@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> In-Reply-To: <20130725175702.GC22291@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3113 Lines: 60 On 07/25/2013 10:57 AM, Mark Rutland wrote: > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 05:09:19PM +0100, Olof Johansson wrote: ... >> So, there really seems to be a need for a layered approach, one in >> which a binding "graduates" from being tentative to being locked in. >> I'm refraining from using the terms "staging" and "stable" here, since >> they have overloaded meaning in the kernel world that doesn't apply >> here. > > I'm not sure how realistic it is to have drivers in the kernel using > unstable bindings, and expect people to not rely on them, but I don't > have a better option to give. We need a big fat warning that an unstable > binding is in use. I don't think having people "rely" on the bindings is the issue so much as the awareness that if they do, there will be compatibility issues for unstable bindings. >> One problem that needs to be solved is obviously how a binding >> graduates from tentative to locked. This work isn't going to be very >> interesting to most people, I suspect. Think standards committee type >> work. >> >> A possible way to handle this is to have exactly that: A group of >> people that essentially constitute the "standards committee" that meet >> on a regular basis to review and approve new bindings. They should be >> people not just doing ARM Linux work, but other stakeholders in these >> bindings too. One of the things they should probably do is sift >> through our current in-kernel bindings and select those who seem ready >> to be locked in, review/discuss/decide upon that and once the decision >> is made, that specific binding does become part of the static, >> never-ever-change ABI of firmware-to-kernel interfaces. That might >> also be the time that the binding is moved from the kernel to a >> separate repo, but that's a technicality that we'll let the DT >> maintainers decide among themselves, IMHO. > > We're going to need input from other OSs too, or the bindings will > remain Linux-specific regardless of how far away the bindings and dts > repo(s) is/are. And bootloaders too. Some U-Boot platforms are starting to use DT for exactly the same reason that the kernel does; to allow a single bootloader binary to run on a variety of different boards, with all configuration coming from DT. On another related topic, something that may be useful for the DT bindings reviewer team is a basic checklist for new DT bindings. Something similar to Fedora's package review checklist. Perhaps also (yet another?) document on a bit of DT philosophy. If this sounds useful, I could try and take a stab at some basic initial version. We also need to decide (or just document) exactly what "describes the HW" means; see the thread on thermal limits, and consider the extension of describing hard/absolute thermal limits to describing use-cased base thermal profiles using the same schema, or not allowing that. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/