Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751594Ab3G0LgT (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:36:19 -0400 Received: from cassiel.sirena.org.uk ([80.68.93.111]:50601 "EHLO cassiel.sirena.org.uk" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751496Ab3G0LgP (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:36:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 12:36:02 +0100 From: Mark Brown To: Richard Cochran Cc: Jason Gunthorpe , Mark Rutland , "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Russell King - ARM Linux , Pawel Moll , Stephen Warren , Domenico Andreoli , "rob.herring@calxeda.com" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Dave P Martin , "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" , Ian Campbell Message-ID: <20130727113602.GD9858@sirena.org.uk> References: <20130725175702.GC22291@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> <51F168FC.9070906@wwwdotorg.org> <20130725182920.GA24955@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> <20130725184834.GA8296@netboy> <20130725213753.GC17616@obsidianresearch.com> <20130726045433.GB4100@netboy> <20130726171524.GB28895@obsidianresearch.com> <20130727085259.GA6207@netboy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wqjXpb7PT9zw0UX/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130727085259.GA6207@netboy> X-Cookie: You will be awarded some great honor. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 94.175.92.69 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: broonie@sirena.org.uk Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on cassiel.sirena.org.uk) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3383 Lines: 82 --wqjXpb7PT9zw0UX/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:53:01AM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:15:24AM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > Why do you think our experiences are so different? > Here are a few recent examples: OK, let's go through these... > * What happens when one wants to boot vanilla kernel on the beaglebone? > http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg198431.html This actually sounds pretty good - glancing over the thread it seems you were trying to boot a shiny new board that people were in the process of trying to upstream support for and were just a bit too early. Device tree doesn't seem to have made a difference either way here. > * Wanting already merged code to work is too much to ask. > http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg79731.html Paul's reply here seems fairly clear - someone had merged a driver which had been developed in an out of tree or pre-DT environment without DT support so they just hadn't added DT support. Sadly doing that is new feature development and so not appropriate for the stabalisation phase of development. > * When people try in good faith to conduct methodical boot tests, > DT is working against them. > http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg79960.html Again I don't see anything particularly related to DT here but instead do with using a SoC and board that are in the early phases of mainline integration. I think what you're seeing here is not to do with DT but rather with the way most SoC vendors engage with mainline - typically they do their SoC bringup out of tree and then if things do get submitted to mainline that happens after the SoC is released. In this respect things seem to have been going relatively well here, there were clearly active efforts to get things integrated and facilitate mainline use. It'd be much better if SoC vendors were to change the way they engage with the kernel so that support was already in mainline at about the time the SoC was released but that's a bigger commercial discussion which isn't really relevant to this one. --wqjXpb7PT9zw0UX/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJR87CfAAoJELSic+t+oim9cpIP/2WXy0UmOxOqh/xhVTEVnBJW CjJvQz40aPiR2Pc6EU3YswYnsaDnLgdKmJoVqHPudnFsdYo4EkgxKhQsHvB5oe9F hBbCMhRWzboW9lNS1o9VjOTA5AVCFAqLUvkekUMdwVv4LeIT1un7LsCWH2iTJUVA J0pkd/fiKT89Kn3PRhb0+1JxEcu81k/5/i/W13M5cC/B048A5iRoI/61B6GD5VVO DorWFiXsVXWwdIWigHJA1vvKQ5GLcRLERWbq2y3AaME4OLgfHcRAks+/2wlDtFzh ZS5aS2K+rfgFXxgVYOMHVajqio+S5EdmFccuOVgTfkQQutKq0azlsWJzDVoDZdoh F4ukB3BW8d5NvQAYq5oMI7jkCGUmmXWGs8DZ9xdMPOviC/FJrvunsu5YQx2wJ5BF Jhr+ILJyFfmR7FXkzRMvRCIS4uqvdpVxk/xYGzoCIFKufMr0UAObY0OUwdamnU16 CwctNe/Zvk+ojXAqpdwdcvygtWOrfIXA9Zcs1XZxKPhgwNq4iqFUoDxPxMInDMto yO3ievwt9Ktalp2npdhR8UOKAYhiJi0dMgSZLiM4sGUZyN8AlBopekDJcty1ryMt gneo7u/ueVHcaIMwk2ioQfU35kBasM0EdI7WHDU1BQnGMocNYFh6BsxdFcAjF4N3 IM8DOIRAp+0gpU2Y0Vup =iWWJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wqjXpb7PT9zw0UX/-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/