Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752678Ab3G0SIL (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:08:11 -0400 Received: from mail-ea0-f177.google.com ([209.85.215.177]:52691 "EHLO mail-ea0-f177.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752610Ab3G0SIJ (ORCPT ); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:08:09 -0400 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 20:07:54 +0200 From: Richard Cochran To: Mark Brown Cc: Jason Gunthorpe , Mark Rutland , "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Russell King - ARM Linux , Pawel Moll , Stephen Warren , Domenico Andreoli , "rob.herring@calxeda.com" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Dave P Martin , "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" , Ian Campbell Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] DT bindings as ABI [was: Do we have people interested in device tree janitoring / cleanup?] Message-ID: <20130727180752.GB4813@netboy> References: <20130725175702.GC22291@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> <51F168FC.9070906@wwwdotorg.org> <20130725182920.GA24955@e106331-lin.cambridge.arm.com> <20130725184834.GA8296@netboy> <20130725213753.GC17616@obsidianresearch.com> <20130726045433.GB4100@netboy> <20130726171524.GB28895@obsidianresearch.com> <20130727085259.GA6207@netboy> <20130727113602.GD9858@sirena.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130727113602.GD9858@sirena.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2753 Lines: 75 On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:36:02PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:53:01AM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:15:24AM -0600, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > > > Why do you think our experiences are so different? > > > Here are a few recent examples: > > OK, let's go through these... Yes, lets, and remember the question was, why do I say that dealing with DT is such a PITA. > > * What happens when one wants to boot vanilla kernel on the beaglebone? > > > http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg198431.html > > This actually sounds pretty good - glancing over the thread it seems you > were trying to boot a shiny new board that people were in the process of > trying to upstream support for and were just a bit too early. Device > tree doesn't seem to have made a difference either way here. Did you miss the part about CONFIG_ARM_APPENDED_DTB? > > * Wanting already merged code to work is too much to ask. > > > http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg79731.html > > Paul's reply here seems fairly clear - someone had merged a driver which > had been developed in an out of tree or pre-DT environment without DT > support so they just hadn't added DT support. Sadly doing that is new > feature development and so not appropriate for the stabalisation phase > of development. This is me asking for maintainers to take patches to fix a driver in version v3.7 where the driver merged in v3.4. The patches contain the missing DT part, and the maintainer rejects them, saying, no new features! Q: What the heck kind of process is that? A: DT process. Seriously, why is it too hard for y'all to insist on merging drivers only when they are really, truly ready (and don't forget the DT part, please). > > * When people try in good faith to conduct methodical boot tests, > > DT is working against them. > > > http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg79960.html > > Again I don't see anything particularly related to DT here but instead > do with using a SoC and board that are in the early phases of mainline > integration. It is ring around the rosie, DT, boot loader, and kernel. Understandably, Paul doesn't want to upgrade his boot loader. He says he is "not interested" in testing the boot loader, just the kernel. And, if you follow the sage of Paul's test reports, you will find him being told to update his boot loader and not to forget the delete old dtb files. So, like I said, it is a pity PITA. Thanks, Richard -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/