From: Brian Wolfe <ahzz@terrabox.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:50:13 -0600
To: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>
Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
        Ion Badulescu <ionut@moisil.cs.columbia.edu>,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, reiserfs-list@namesys.com,
        Jan Kasprzak <kas@informatics.muni.cz>
Subject: Re: [reiserfs-list] ReiserFS Oops (2.4.1, deterministic, symlink related)
Message-ID: <20010204205013.D23921@ironsides.terrabox.com>
In-Reply-To: <E14OoD8-0007GI-00@the-village.bc.nu> <3A7B2F7C.52AA6AFA@namesys.com>
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In-Reply-To: <3A7B2F7C.52AA6AFA@namesys.com>; from reiser@namesys.com on Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:06:52AM +0300
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	I hate to say it but I think Hans might have the right answer here. As an =
administrator that has worked in large multi hundred million dollar compani=
es where 1 hour of downtime =3D=3D $75,000 in lost income proactive prevent=
ion IS the right answer. If the gcc people need to compile with the .96 rh =
version then they can apply a removal patch hans provides in the crash mess=
age. This makes it easy to remove the safeguard and blow yourself up at wil=
l after being suitibly called a dumbass.

	I do understand your desire to keep things simple and not put a safetynet =
out for every single moron out there. Personaly I despise them. But I also =
understand the evil necessity of doign this for somet hings that are this s=
erious of a risk.

	From the debate raging here is what I gathered is acceptable....

make it blow up fataly and immediatly if it detects Red Hat + gcc 2.96-red_=
hat_broken(forgot version num)
make it provide a URL to get the patch to remove this safeguard if you real=
ly want this.

	The fatal crash should be VERY carefull to only trigger on a redhat system=
 with the broken compiler. And to satisfy your agument that people may need=
 to be able to use it, provide a reverse patch to remove this safeguard in =
one easy cat file | patch.

	Brian Wolfe

On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 01:06:52AM +0300, Hans Reiser wrote:
> Alan Cox wrote:
> >=20
> > > As it stands, there is no way to determine programatically whether
> > > gcc-2.96 is broken or now. The only way to do it is to check the RPM
> > > version -- which, needless to say, is a bit difficult to do from the
> > > C code about to be compiled. So I can't really blame Hans if he decid=
es
> > > to outlaw gcc-2.96[.0] for reiserfs compiles.
> >=20
> > Oh I can see why Hans wants to cut down his bug reporting load. I can a=
lso
> > say from experience it wont work. If you put #error in then everyone wi=
ll
> > mail him and complain it doesnt build, if you put #warning in nobody wi=
ll
> > read it and if you dont put anything in you get the odd bug report anyw=
ay.
> >=20
> > Basically you can't win and unfortunately a shrink wrap forcing the user
> > to read the README file for the kernel violates the GPL ..
> >=20
> > Jaded, me ?
> >=20
> > Alan
>=20
> I fear that you are speaking from experience about the complaints it does=
n't
> build, and that there is a strong element of truth in what you say.
>=20
> That said, my opinion is that bug reporting load is not as important as b=
ug
> avoidance, but I understand your position has merit to it also.
>=20
> Hans

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