Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:44:40 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:44:40 -0500 Received: from mail.hometree.net ([212.34.181.120]:7640 "EHLO mail.hometree.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:44:38 -0500 To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Path: forge.intermeta.de!not-for-mail From: "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" Newsgroups: hometree.linux.kernel Subject: Re: [lkcd-general] Re: What's left over. Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:51:12 +0000 (UTC) Organization: INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH Message-ID: References: Reply-To: hps@intermeta.de NNTP-Posting-Host: forge.intermeta.de X-Trace: tangens.hometree.net 1036428672 16867 212.34.181.4 (4 Nov 2002 16:51:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@intermeta.de NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 16:51:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Copyright: (C) 1996-2002 Henning Schmiedehausen X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2268 Lines: 50 Patrick Finnegan writes: >On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote: >> Alan Cox writes: >> >> >On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 14:45, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote: >> >> Good! This means, people debugging the code have actually to think and >> >> don't produce "turn on debugger, step here, there, patch a band aid, >> >> >Some of us debug hardware. Regardless of the nice theories about >> >reviewing your code they don't actually work on hardware because no >> >amount of code review will let you discover things like undocumented >> >2uS deskew delays, or errors in DMA engines >> >> A debugger won't help you here either. A pci bus probe, a 'scope and a >> logic analyzer do. >> >> (And experience, elbow grease, experience and a nice amount of ESP :-) >> I do hate hardware. Had to debug too much of it (and just on >> m68k/MCS-51 where the clock rates are low and the parts easy to >> solder...). >I find that hard to believe. You're saying it's impossible to use a >software debugger to debug the interface between the software and the No. IMHO it is impossible to use a software debugger to catch 2uS deskew delays or errors in DMA engines. That's what logic analyzers are for. If you attach or fire up the debugger, the timing changes and you're no longer testing the failure case but something different. >(No Linus, I'm not pushing them, just stating my opinion.) I am, BTW completely your opinion. Personally I find it horrid that "the XIAFS resurrection" is winked through with "will be probably accepted for the hack value" and LKCD is rejected with "bloat" arguments. But hey, it _is_ Linus' kernel and he may choose as he likes. I e.g. run vendor kernels (for 2.4). Regards Henning -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- Geschaeftsfuehrer INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH hps@intermeta.de Am Schwabachgrund 22 Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0 info@intermeta.de D-91054 Buckenhof Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/