Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:26:18 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:26:18 -0500 Received: from smtp-outbound.cwctv.net ([213.104.18.10]:64041 "EHLO smtp.cwctv.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:26:16 -0500 From: To: billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie, riel@conectiva.com.br, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rms@gnu.org Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:33:03 +0000 Subject: RE:Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Liberate TVMail 2.6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1041485583711" Message-ID: <0eca95832050213DTVMAIL1@smtp.cwctv.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 5213 Lines: 116 --1041485583711 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The NVidia driver is derivative, a lot of people put trust in the GPL and I am one, im currently picking a solicitor, NVidia will either win or lose, if I lose, M$ win may soon be a lot like Linux. Dean. Three ways to kill yourself, and ive been drove in one... On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:37:36 -0800 Bill Huey (Hui) wrote: --1041485583711 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.116.70.75]) by smtp.cwctv.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44); Thu, 2 Jan 2003 01:36:20 +0000 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:29:20 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:29:20 -0500 Received: from wsip68-15-8-100.sd.sd.cox.net ([68.15.8.100]:21122 "EHLO gnuppy.monkey.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:29:18 -0500 Received: from billh by gnuppy.monkey.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18TuIi-0000i4-00; Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:37:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 17:37:36 -0800 To: Paul Jakma Cc: Rik van Riel , Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, rms@gnu.org Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Message-ID: <20030102013736.GA2708@gnuppy.monkey.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i From: Bill Huey (Hui) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: linux-kernel-owner+Hell.Surfers=40cwctv.net@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 12:31:13AM +0000, Paul Jakma wrote: > The NVidia shim makes use of several kernel subsystems, the PCI > device layer, the VM, the module system (well really, the kernel > makes of use of the functions the module provides :) ), IRQ > subsystem, the VFS, etc.. These systems are rather large bodies of > code - without which the NVidia kernel driver could not work. Well, no, look at the "nm" dump of the object file. It's got a lot of proprietary code that came from what looks like commerical libraries that they don't own. Back when they wrote the original drive, the GPL equivalents of DRM, AGP, etc... sucked so they had to write their own stuff just to get anything basic working. > driver is not a derivative work, and hence it seems to me the NVidia > driver is technically in material breach of GPL. Their portability layer wraps the low level calls into their own terminology and portability API. It's fairly outside of the linux kernel itself, internally the object file looks very Win32ish. Obviously a GPL rewrite of this would entail a lot of replicated effort and would also depend on things that are incomplete, non-existent and don't have a lot direct interest from the GPL community. 3D isn't a hot commodity in Linux, FreeBSD unlike with dedicated SGI machines (although faded). It's a very practical solution to do it this way. > So I am not quite sure on what basis one could argue the NVidia > > You seem to be basing your opinion on: > > "the nvidia driver uses only the standard interfaces to hook into > the Linux kernel" > > How are the standard interfaces not covered by the GPL? All I saw where kernel header files include in the sources, nothing more. They have to support multipule architecture and OSes so keeping this stuff outside of the driver is a good thing. The GPL-ly stuff is publically available as source files. > I know Linus' has often posted to l-k that he doesnt care about > binary only modules as long as they stick to the exported interfaces. > However, are all the kernel developers agreed on this? And if so, can > this exception be formalised and put into the COPYING file? If not, > then is NVidia not in breach of the kernel's licence? I'd rather have the experts do it at NVidia, than a half completed open source implementation that isn't terribly optimized. Matrix multiplies, T&L, etc... communication between user and kernel space that provides this to the OpenGL libraries are all exotic. I'm glad that nobody has to deal with this stuff directly and that a vendor is willing to provide support for it. bill - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ --1041485583711-- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/