Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:07:39 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:07:38 -0500 Received: from smtp-outbound.cwctv.net ([213.104.18.10]:26697 "EHLO smtp.cwctv.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:07:37 -0500 From: To: matthias.andree@gmx.de, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, lm@work.bitmover.com, rms@gnu.org, mark@mark.mielke.cc, billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie, riel@conectiva.com.br Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 06:14:14 +0000 Subject: RE:Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Liberate TVMail 2.6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1041747254655" Message-ID: <07a4d0211060513DTVMAIL8@smtp.cwctv.net> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 5892 Lines: 120 --1041747254655 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AMEN BROTHER. SING IT. Dean McEwan, If the drugs don't work, [sarcasm] take more...[/sarcasm]. On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:06:51 +0100 Matthias Andree wrote: --1041747254655 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.116.70.75]) by smtp.cwctv.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44); Sat, 4 Jan 2003 22:05:12 +0000 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:58:22 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:58:22 -0500 Received: from krusty.dt.e-technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE ([129.217.163.1]:36368 "EHLO mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 16:58:21 -0500 Received: from m2a2.dyndns.org (krusty.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.163.1]) by mail.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C439EA381A for ; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:06:53 +0100 (CET) Received: by merlin.emma.line.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4FD2F75E5F; Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:06:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:06:51 +0100 From: Matthias Andree To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Cc: Larry McVoy , Richard Stallman , mark@mark.mielke.cc, billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie, riel@conectiva.com.br, Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net Subject: Re: Why is Nvidia given GPL'd code to use in closed source drivers? Message-ID: <20030104220651.GA30907@merlin.emma.line.org> Mail-Followup-To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Larry McVoy , Richard Stallman , mark@mark.mielke.cc, billh@gnuppy.monkey.org, paul@clubi.ie, riel@conectiva.com.br, Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net References: <20030102013736.GA2708@gnuppy.monkey.org> <20030102055859.GA3991@gnuppy.monkey.org> <20030102061430.GA23276@mark.mielke.cc> <20030103040612.GA10651@work.bitmover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030103040612.GA10651@work.bitmover.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: linux-kernel-owner+Hell.Surfers=40cwctv.net@vger.kernel.org On Thu, 02 Jan 2003, Larry McVoy wrote: > Yeah, if only the company that has invested millions in trying to scratch > out a place to stand, if only they would give us their intellectual > property for free, if only, why then we could steal that IP and give it > to other people. And it would take us less time to do it if they would > only cooperate. Why won't they cooperate? Keeping "intellectual property" to oneself is NOT what has made mankind leave the trees and build up civilization, medical care and all that stuff. Community is the cause, some people specialized in hunting or agriculture, some in building houses, whatever. I understand many existences currently depend on holding back information (be that publishers of scientific journals, be that entertainment; movies), and a lot of restructuring would be necessary if "intellectual property" was no longer protected. Maybe it takes one won GPL infringement law suit or two with adequate compensation paid to the plaintiff that companies get trust into GPL. It might not work for BitKeeper because that stuff needs too little support because it's too good (the old "hey, why are you installing inferior software at your clients' sites?" -- "to sell support afterwards") or something. ;-) Seriously: would NVIDIA really lose if they open sourced the drivers? It's their hardware that really bangs and that carries the bucks into their house. If someone is to reverse engineer what they're doing, they can also reverse engineer the driver first and then the chip. Of course, opensourcing means you can't cheat by just disabling functions in software and you won't get away too long with cheating benchmarks. Maybe people get the idea that cooperation is nicer than competition unless it leads to a monopoly that's exploited. > Give it up, Stallman, we live in a capitalistic world. The Russians > tried communism and it didn't work. It won't work here either, the > kernel folks aren't that stupid. Some people actually do learn from > history. And globalization + capitalism makes it that eventually only a monopoly remains. Look at the oil market, look at Microsoft, look at the car market or even food or pharmacy. Mergers everywhere, leading to layoffs, raised gains, less competition. Ooops. It's useful to have people around that think in other directions, they make up for innovation. Linux is an offspring of such people's thoughts. And from what is to be heard about ATI, the Macrovision stuff for the TV outputs is one of the major reasons they are holding back source code. Now assume it's true and think about the driver situation again. The movie companies prevent you from improving ATI's TV output, ultimately. This is exaggerated, but it might help stepping back and looking at the WHOLE system. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ --1041747254655-- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/