Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:16:22 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:16:21 -0500 Received: from cibs9.sns.it ([192.167.206.29]:39435 "EHLO cibs9.sns.it") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 19:16:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 01:24:45 +0100 (CET) From: venom@sns.it To: Matthias Andree cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Subject: Re: Honest does not pay here ... In-Reply-To: <20030107232820.GB24664@merlin.emma.line.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4004 Lines: 101 What really surprises me is that in this thread, nor in the other one about NVIDIA module, none made a mantion about the 2.5 modules infrastructure of next 2.6 kernels using runqueue instead of task queues and tasklets. In very semplicistic words: In 2.5/2.6 kernels, non GPL modules have a big penalty, because they cannot create their own queue, but have to use a default one. (tasklets still remains, so that I can use with 2.5 kernel tha NVIDIA modules with the patch fronm www.minion.de.) I saw just a very defuse mention from Andre Hedrick. That would be an important point, because some term of the discussion changes. First of all, I do not mnd about binary only modules, and fixed ones like nvidia, I was knowing I would had to use them when I bought those cards. I do also agree with reasons of Andre Hedrick. But this particular new modules infrastructures is a big penality for binary only modules, AND SO IS A STRONG POSITION OF THE LINUX KERNEL AS A WHOLE ABOUT THIS TOPIC. This is a good incentive for company to GPL the drivers, and for users to use GPL ones. This is a fact, and every one forgot it. Then, if a developers wants to release a binary only modules, and then release the sources when his work is repaid, he can do so. I will be happy to use this module, if I need it, if it is stable and works with the kernel version i choice (if not, I simply will go for another hardware if I can), and happier when it will be GPL also because potentially it could work even better. On the other side, the the linux kernel has implemented the just one smart incentive for all to release modules under GPL, and who instead choiche to release binary only modules knows very well that he will have to face some true limitation. The developers has a serious reason to GPL the code when he is "repaid". For big companies like NVIDIA situation is slighly different. They are already repaid by hardware, and they have all the interess to have drivers that work at best. Image is important for them, and performance gain too. So they are strongly pushed since the beginning to GPL the code, to avoid any kind of penalty. how could they loose costumers just because a worse hardware works better because of a GPL driver? maybe my samples are too extreme (of course they are, ad every provocation), but I was tired to listen all discussion about ideological points, and none considering a pragmatic technical argument. Luigi Genoni On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Matthias Andree wrote: > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 00:28:20 +0100 > From: Matthias Andree > To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > Subject: Re: Honest does not pay here ... > > On Tue, 07 Jan 2003, Dana Lacoste wrote: > > > On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 18:41, Matthias Andree wrote: > > > > > You're at the author's mercy if you need to upgrade your kernel or if > > > the driver doesn't work for you. I'd rather know before buying a product > > > (modem, GFX board, ...) if there's either non-NDA'd documentation or > > > better an OpenSource driver or at least support for such. > > > > Which is why you chose an open source driver over a closed source > > driver, but you're STILL ignoring the "any driver is better than none" > > argument. > > Depends on the driver quality. If it's stable, then it might qualify. If > it confuses my computer, then I'll rather sell the hardware to someone > who doesn't use Linux and buy a hardware that is documented and has > decent OpenSource drivers. > > -- > Matthias Andree > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/