Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:17:03 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:17:03 -0500 Received: from fluent2.pyramid.net ([206.100.220.213]:56712 "EHLO fluent2.pyramid.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:17:01 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030108065119.01d69ab0@fluent2.pyramid.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:25:37 -0800 To: Andre Hedrick From: Stephen Satchell Subject: Re: Honest does not pay here ... Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4037 Lines: 83 At 03:05 AM 1/8/03 -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote: >I have pissed off everyone. >While searching for the exact line of where things are black and white. >Nobody cares enough to help clear the air. >Nobody cares to pursue any of the existing binary modules. Well, Andre, you haven't pissed me off in any way, sir. You have raised some very interesting questions, questions that need to be answered if Linux is going to continue to live in the real world. Real world, as opposed to the Utopia (or Utopias) that some contributor here would like to see. This is for the rest of you: I'm not knocking the sincerity of those contributors who have made their views known on this subject, nor do I want to disabuse them of their dream. I want them, though, to recognize the dream for what it is, goals that would be nice to achieve but not a reality no matter how much they may wish it so. Goals that have merit, as long as they don't become a straitjacket to making Linux useful to its users. The concept of a kernel "tainted" by binary-only modules was, as I recall the prior threads on the subject, was focused on preventing developers from "spinning their wheels" trying to debug a black box for which no source is available and which may have unintended and astonishing effects on the rest of the kernel. In this goal, the Linux Developer Community has followed in the footsteps of Microsoft Corporation, in wanting to focus their support efforts on situations where the variables are minimized. --> The whole purpose of Microsoft's Windows Hardware Certification Lab (WHCL) process was to ensure that hardware and the drivers that come with them meet certain minimum performance and configuration parameters, reducing Microsoft's technical support triage efforts. --> The whole purpose of the "tainted" kernel indication was to ensure that a problem report involving black boxes indicate that black boxes are involved, reducing the Linux Developer Community's technical support triage efforts. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The contributors who champion "free (as in speech) software" must recognize that the concept of intellectual property is a global concept, not just the child of one country such as the United States. Limiting customer choice by blocking closed-source binary-only drivers only serves to make Gnu/Linux (ok, Stallman?) less useful to our customers because it does eliminate a choice. I applaud the goal of emphasizing open-source drivers where open source is possible. Just as the holder of a hammer tends to look at all problems as nails, some of the contributors here appear to think that open-source is the be-all and end-all -- but the real world of intellectual property royalties and cutthroat competition sometimes makes open source impractical or impossible. I want to make this clear: if the customer requirements are such that s/he need to use hardware with a closed-source driver, then it is the customer's choice to incorporate said hardware and drivers. The problem that some contributors to this discussion on LKML are trying to create an environment that is specifically intended to rob the customer of that choice in the pursuit of a dream, a dream that WILL force that customer to a different solution other than Linux. That's bad for Linux, that's bad for GNU, that's bad for the customer the Linux user. You DO believe that we should be looking out for the Linux user, don't you? Educate. Don't dictate. OK, now the coffee should be ready, and I can medicate myself. Stephen Satchell -- The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange protein: it rejects it. -- P. Medawar This posting is for entertainment purposes only; it is not a legal opinion. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/