Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753939AbbDNToA (ORCPT ); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:44:00 -0400 Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org ([140.211.169.12]:51335 "EHLO mail.linuxfoundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752817AbbDNTnv (ORCPT ); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:43:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:43:48 +0200 From: Greg Kroah-Hartman To: Al Viro Cc: Andy Lutomirski , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Arnd Bergmann , "Eric W. Biederman" , One Thousand Gnomes , Tom Gundersen , Jiri Kosina , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Daniel Mack , David Herrmann , Djalal Harouni Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 Message-ID: <20150414194348.GA7540@kroah.com> References: <20150413190350.GA9485@kroah.com> <20150413204547.GB1760@kroah.com> <20150414175019.GA2874@kroah.com> <20150414192357.GA6107@kroah.com> <20150414193533.GF889@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150414193533.GF889@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1869 Lines: 39 On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 08:35:33PM +0100, Al Viro wrote: > On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:23:57PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > > > > I agree. You've sent a pull request for an unfortunate design. I > > > don't think that unfortunate design belongs in the kernel. If it says > > > in userspace, then user programmers could potentially fix it some day. > > > > You might not like the design, but it is a valid design. Again, we > > don't refuse to support hardware that is designed badly. Or support > > protocols we don't necessarily like, that's not the job of a kernel or > > operating system. > > Bullshit. The problem you seem to deliberately ignore is that once it's > in the kernel, it's impossible to eradicate. It's not just a crap design, > it's a crap design you are taking in as-is. It is not a crap design. Go read the link I provided. Havoc points out exactly why the design is the way it is, for very valid reasons. It's actually much like X11 is as well, but not like "normal" IP connections at all. > And no, "the sole consumer of that API knows better, so bend over" is not > a good idea. We have shitloads of examples when single-consumer APIs > turned into screaming horrors; taking that in over the objections to API > design, merely on "they do it that way, who the hell we are to say they > are wrong?" is insane. Again, in this domain, the design is sound. So much so that everyone who works in that area moved toward it (KDE, Qt, Go, etc.) We might not think it makes sense, and it did take me a while to wrap my head around it, but to call it "crap" is unfair, sorry. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/