Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753512AbbDOIaA (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:30:00 -0400 Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org ([140.211.169.12]:60669 "EHLO mail.linuxfoundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751443AbbDOI34 (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:29:56 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:29:51 +0200 From: Greg Kroah-Hartman To: Andy Lutomirski Cc: Al Viro , "Eric W. Biederman" , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Arnd Bergmann , One Thousand Gnomes , Tom Gundersen , Jiri Kosina , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Daniel Mack , David Herrmann , Djalal Harouni Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 Message-ID: <20150415082951.GA16381@kroah.com> References: <20150413190350.GA9485@kroah.com> <8738434yjk.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org> <20150413194217.GA10837@kroah.com> <20150413202233.GR889@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2258 Lines: 43 On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 06:36:28PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Al Viro wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 09:42:17PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > >> > I remain opposed to this half thought out trash of an ABI for the > >> > meta-data. > >> > >> You don't have to enable the metadata if you don't want to use it, it's > >> an option :) > > > > OK, _that_ argument needs to be stomped out. It had been used before, > > and it was a deliberate scam. There is no such thing as optional kernel > > interface, especially when udev/dbus/systemd crowd is nearby. We'd been > > through that excuse before; remember how devtmpfs was pushed in as "optional"? > > > > This is a huge red flag. On the level of "I need your account information > > to transfer $200M you might have inherited from my deceased client". > > > > Just to recap how it went the last time around: Kay kept pushing his piece of > > code into the tree, claiming that it was optional, that nobody who doesn't > > like it has to enable it, so what's the problem? OK, in it went. And pretty > > soon udev (maintained by the same... meticulously honorable person) had > > stopped working on the kernels that didn't have that enabled. > > > > We had been there before. To paraphrase another... meticulously honorable > > person, "if you didn't want something relied upon, why have you put it into the > > kernel?" Said person is on the record as having no problem whatsoever with > > adding dependencies to the bottom of userland stack. > > It appears that, if kdbus is merged, upstream udev may end up requiring it: > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html Why would anyone propose a kernel api if they didn't actually plan to use it? Look at the first email in this thread, it shows the people/projects that want to use this. This is a crazy argument to try to make people, "stop using the feature that the kernel provides you!" greg k-h -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/