Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752889AbbDOIsV (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:48:21 -0400 Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org ([140.211.169.12]:32834 "EHLO mail.linuxfoundation.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751200AbbDOIsQ (ORCPT ); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:48:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:48:12 +0200 From: Greg Kroah-Hartman To: Richard Weinberger Cc: Andy Lutomirski , Al Viro , "Eric W. Biederman" , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Arnd Bergmann , One Thousand Gnomes , Tom Gundersen , Jiri Kosina , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Daniel Mack , David Herrmann , Djalal Harouni Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 Message-ID: <20150415084812.GG16381@kroah.com> References: <20150413190350.GA9485@kroah.com> <8738434yjk.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org> <20150413194217.GA10837@kroah.com> <20150413202233.GR889@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1664 Lines: 35 On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 08:54:07AM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 3:36 AM, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > >> We had been there before. To paraphrase another... meticulously honorable > >> person, "if you didn't want something relied upon, why have you put it into the > >> kernel?" Said person is on the record as having no problem whatsoever with > >> adding dependencies to the bottom of userland stack. > > > > It appears that, if kdbus is merged, upstream udev may end up requiring it: > > > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html > > Why so surprised? > kdbus will be a major hard-dependency for every non-trivial userland. > Like cgroups... Maybe because things like cgroups, and kdbus in the future, solves a need that the developers in that area have to solve problems and provide functionality that their users require? Look, us kernel developers only work on one huge, multithreaded, global state binary. Our experience in multi-application interactions with shared state and permission requirements is usually quite limited. If you don't trust the developers of those programs outside the kernel, don't use them, there are still distros out there that don't require them. But if you do trust them, then don't make snide comments about how they don't know what they are doing, because that's just flat out rude. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/