Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:08:05 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:07:55 -0500 Received: from vger.timpanogas.org ([207.109.151.240]:38411 "EHLO vger.timpanogas.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:07:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:08:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Mike A. Harris" X-X-Sender: To: Timur Tabi cc: Subject: Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line In-Reply-To: <1tjGM.A.tdG.0uWi6@dinero.interactivesi.com> Message-ID: X-Unexpected-Header: The Spanish Inquisition Copyright: Copyright 2001 by Mike A. Harris - All rights reserved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Timur Tabi wrote: >> Which is retarded. The subject line is for the subject. Other >> headers exist for letting one know where they came from. > >There's only one problem with this. It assumes that for every >mailing list you are on, you will have a folder into which all >such email is placed. No it does not. You are free to filter your mail however you wish. I put all the "caudium" lists into one folder for example. These lists unfortunately put the stupid [caudium-blah] in the subject, but I now can filter it out. If I want to look at just a specific list, I can use PINE's search feature. >I subscribe to about 35 mailing lists, many of which have low >traffic. I subscribe to 90+ lists, many of which are low traffic. >I don't want to create a separate folder for each list. Nor do I. >Because most of these mailing lists are on Yahoo Groups, I get >a nice prefix to each subject line that tells me the mailing >list. If that is important to you, and is the default for the list, cool. >In can then filter all of these messages into one folder. So >instead of having to scan 20 folders, I only need to scan one. You can do the same wether or not the subject contains the list name. It is very simple. >The point I'm trying to make is that there are perfectly valid >reasons to include some text on the subject line to indicate >the mailing list. I have yet to hear a single good reason. Any reasons I've heard any time in the last 7 years, have NOT been good reasons because the reasons given always have another way of doing the EXACT same thing, only without abusing the subject header. Give me a good reason, and I'll give you an alternate way of achieving the same thing - without messing up the subject. >People who feel this way may be in the majority, but then >again, people who use Linux are also in the majority. Does >that make them wrong or "retarded"? No. Read what I said again. I never said anyone was retarded at all. I said specifically: "Which is retarded" refering to the process of a list putting the name on the subject header. What I am trying to say is that there are better ways of doing the exact same things, without abusing the DEFINITIONS of a given header. To illustrate further, consider instead of using the subject header if mailing lists put the list name in the DATE header. Date: [linux-kernel] Jan 12, 2000 .... Pretty dumb eh? And annoying. And, you cant read the date in index mode because all you see is: 419 [linux-k Timur Tabi (3,617) Re: [LK] Re: lkml subject line Can't see the date because the dumb list puts the listname in the date field! No different for subject. Here is an example: N 69 Jan 29 David Hedbor (3,446) [caudium-commits] CVS: caudium/server So when I look at the index, to scan which messages might be interesting, by looking at the subject - which has the purpose of summarizing the content/context of the message, I see 60% bullshit, and 14 characters of subject. In order to get any useful meaning I must read every message just to see a useful part of the subject. Either that or use a 160 column video mode instead of 80. Why? Because someone sets a list to put the damn list name in the subject, because some user can't learn how to use an email filter properly. What is right: 1) not putting the thing in the subject from the list side 2) If an end user wants it in the subject, they can set up a mail filter to PUT it in the subject. :0 fwh * ^Sender:.*owner-linux-kernel | sed -e 's/^Subject: /Subject: [lkml]/' :0 A: lkml The above filter should add [lkml] to your subject line. So why try to force it on everyone? If the above procmail filter doesn't work (untested) let me know and I will MAKE it work. Windows users - tough luck - procmail is open source - hire someone to port it... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Free Software advocate This message is copyright 2001, all rights reserved. Views expressed are my own, not necessarily shared by my employer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows 95(n) - 32-bit extensions and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/