Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1423410AbbD2Oq7 (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:46:59 -0400 Received: from mail-ig0-f177.google.com ([209.85.213.177]:35115 "EHLO mail-ig0-f177.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1031712AbbD2Oq6 (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:46:58 -0400 Message-ID: <5540EEDD.7020005@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:46:53 -0400 From: Austin S Hemmelgarn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Harald Hoyer , Richard Weinberger CC: "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 References: <20150423163616.GA10874@kroah.com> <20150423171640.GA11227@kroah.com> <553A4A2F.5090406@samsung.com> <20150428171840.GB11351@thunk.org> <21824.5086.446831.189915@quad.stoffel.home> <5540D2F9.2010704@redhat.com> <5540DEEB.2060405@redhat.com> <5540E0C7.3050106@nod.at> <5540E432.9020606@redhat.com> <5540E4D9.6000007@nod.at> <5540E684.4070606@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <5540E684.4070606@redhat.com> x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:harald@redhat.com::bbf3e2f2e626e470d587585ae676de32:3694761de8d9da69 x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:richard@nod.at::81814eac921441efcb0efebaaf53ca5a:21f6d3e371722d13 x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org::7d1531b8ef78602c3592b0657919f941:12f0c1f00353a7c x-stampprotocols: hashcash:1:17;mbound:0:10:3000:5000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080304050903010903090100" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 150429-0, 2015-04-29), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 7338 Lines: 143 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080304050903010903090100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-04-29 10:11, Harald Hoyer wrote: > On 29.04.2015 16:04, Richard Weinberger wrote: >> Am 29.04.2015 um 16:01 schrieb Harald Hoyer: >>> On 29.04.2015 15:46, Richard Weinberger wrote: >>>> Am 29.04.2015 um 15:38 schrieb Harald Hoyer: >>>>> On 29.04.2015 15:33, Richard Weinberger wrote: >>>>>> It depends how you define "beginning". To me an initramfs is a *ve= ry* minimal >>>>>> tool to prepare the rootfs and nothing more (no udev, no systemd, = no >>>>>> "mini distro"). >>>>>> If the initramfs fails to do its job it can print to the console l= ike >>>>>> the kernel does if it fails >>>>>> at a very early stage. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Your solution might work for your small personal needs, but not for= our customers. >>>> >>>> Correct, I don't know your customers, all I know are my customers. := -) >>>> >>>> What feature do your customers need? >>>> I mean, I fully agree with you that an initramfs must not fail silen= tly >>>> but how does dbus help there? If it fails to mount the rootfs there = is not >>>> much it can do. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> //richard >>>> >>> >>> We don't handcraft the initramfs script for every our customers, ther= efore we >>> have to generically support hotplug, persistent device names, persist= ent >>> interface names, network connectivity in the initramfs, user input ha= ndling for >>> passwords, fonts, keyboard layouts, fips, fsck, repair tools for file= systems, >>> raid assembly, LVM assembly, multipath, crypto devices, live images, = iSCSI, >>> FCoE, all kinds of filesystems with their quirks, IBM z-series suppor= t, resume >>> from hibernation, [=E2=80=A6] >> >> This is correct. But which of these tools/features depend on dbus? > > I would love to add dbus support to all of them and use it, so I can co= nnect > them all more easily. No need for them to invent their own version of I= PC, > which can only be used by their own tool set. > Resume is built into the kernel, so no need for IPC there. Keymaps,=20 fonts, and fsck need no IPC either. FIPS related stuff should need no=20 IPC. Anything to do with the Device Mapper and hotplug should just need = uevents. While I can kind of see you wanting to have lvmetad in the=20 initramfs for use with LVM, I've seen all kinds of reports of issues=20 caused by that. I can also kind of understand wanting some kind of=20 unified IPC for the netboot related stuff, DBus is still serious=20 overkill for any of that IMHO. As things stand currently, the few=20 things in that list that I know actually use IPC for anything get by=20 just fine (and much faster) using just UDS. --------------ms080304050903010903090100 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGuDCC BrQwggScoAMCAQICAxBuVTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xNTAz MjUxOTM0MzhaFw0xNTA5MjExOTM0MzhaMGMxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0NBY2VydCBXb1QgVXNlcjEj MCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUYWhmZXJyb2luN0BnbWFpbC5jb20xIjAgBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWE2Fo ZW1tZWxnQG9oaW9ndC5jb20wggIiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4ICDwAwggIKAoICAQCdD/zW 2rRAFCLnDfXpWxU1+ODqRVUgzHvrRO7ADUxRo1CBDc3JSX5TIW2OGmQ3DAKGOACp8Z0sgxMc B05tzAZ/M7m4jajVrwwdVCdrwVGxTdAai7Kwg4ZCVfyMVhcwo8R2eW3QahBx34G0RKumK9sZ ZQSQ+zULAzpY6uz7T1sAk/erMoivRXF6u8WvOsLkOD1F/Xyv1ZccSUG5YeDgZgc0nZUBvyIp zXSHjgWerFkrxEM3y2z/Ff3eL1sgGYecV/I1F+I5S01V7Kclt/qRW10c/4JEGRcI1FmrJBPu BtMYPbg/3Y9LZROYN+mVIFxZxOfrmjfFZ96xt/TaMXo8vcEKtWcNEjhGBjEbfMUEm4aq8ygQ 4MuEcpJc8DJCHBkg2KBk13DkbU2qNepTD6Uip1C+g+KMr0nd6KOJqSH27ZuNY4xqV4hIxFHp ex0zY7mq6fV2o6sKBGQzRdI20FDYmNjsLJwjH6qJ8laxFphZnPRpBThmu0AjuBWE72GnI1oA aO+bs92MQGJernt7hByCnDO82W/ykbVz+Ge3Sax8NY0m2Xdvp6WFDY/PjD9CdaJ9nwQGsUSa N54lrZ2qMTeCI9Vauwf6U69BA42xgk65VvxvTNqji+tZ4aZbarZ7el2/QDHOb/rRwlCFplS/ z4l1f1nOrE6bnDl5RBJyW3zi74P6GwIDAQABo4IBWTCCAVUwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADBWBglg hkgBhvhCAQ0ESRZHVG8gZ2V0IHlvdXIgb3duIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIGZvciBGUkVFIGhlYWQg b3ZlciB0byBodHRwOi8vd3d3LkNBY2VydC5vcmcwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgOoMEAGA1UdJQQ5 MDcGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4 QgQBMDIGCCsGAQUFBwEBBCYwJDAiBggrBgEFBQcwAYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9y ZzAxBgNVHR8EKjAoMCagJKAihiBodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNhY2VydC5vcmcvcmV2b2tlLmNybDA0 BgNVHREELTArgRRhaGZlcnJvaW43QGdtYWlsLmNvbYETYWhlbW1lbGdAb2hpb2d0LmNvbTAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FAAOCAgEAGvl7xb42JMRH5D/vCIDYvFY3dR2FPd5kmOqpKU/fvQ8ovmJa p5N/FDrsCL+YdslxPY+AAn78PYmL5pFHTdRadT++07DPIMtQyy2qd+XRmz6zP8Il7vGcEDmO WmMLYMq4xV9s/N7t7JJp6ftdIYUcoTVChUgilDaRWMLidtslCdRsBVfUjPb1bF5Ua31diKDP e0M9/e2CU36rbcTtiNCXhptMigzuL3zJXUf2B9jyUV8pnqNEQH36fqJ7YTBLcpq3aYa2XbAH Hgx9GehJBIqwspDmhPCFZ/QmqUXCkt+XfvinQ2NzKR6P3+OdYbwqzVX8BdMeojh7Ig8x/nIx mQ+/ufstL1ZYp0bg13fyK/hPYSIBpayaC76vzWovkIm70DIDRIFLi20p/qTd7rfDYy831Hjm +lDdCECF9bIXEWFk33kA97dgQIMbf5chEmlFg8S0e4iw7LMjvRqMX3eCD8GJ2+oqyZUwzZxy S0Mx+rBld5rrN7LsXwZ671HsGqNeYbYeU25e7t7/Gcc6Bd/kPfA+adEuUGFcvUKH3trDYqNq 6mOkAd8WO/mQadlc3ztS++XDMhmIpfBre9MPAr6usqf+wc+R8Nk9KLK39kEgrqVfzc/fgf8L MaD4rHnusdg4gca6Yi+kNrm99anw7SwaBrBvULYBp7ixNRUhaYiNW4YjTrYxggShMIIEnQIB ATCBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5v cmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW EnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggH1MBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzEL BgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTE1MDQyOTE0NDY1M1owIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkE MRYEFHaNpT1oteFqiTiaEFMwQudKwZAcMGwGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFfMF0wCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEq MAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwgZEGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBgzCBgDB5MRAwDgYD VQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMT GUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2Fj ZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMIGTBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBg6CBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENB MR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2ln bmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5V MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIICAFEUjQz32NCh7reXWpLKH4U4z7hiAPB3S48qCS1Lda6AqnfO rPZ8vVomO3BhtcRHLrqLMG3ZovCzgN6Rhe6voxcxQCdFNfKl7n8/WIVAnMyDJz08Nnol9FJg y4ZlgU5MushOii/OcgVWi87Q6T89O+nZLsATyHduBJ9Ax7jG3zoDenTWIRJD5/6DMNjQdJ7h woNEg4cnwngM81I8evfvade8J2Ch9HSmdRCI0X/9PDuYypdK+7OtQTk+APFqd8ZYpNxsQaev EOzHOc5mFPnrbdNAS3tz0TSEO7DHB0p30fQyAaOiduDezqIVVnArF2owtwOJ0EtX/dPT73nG lCD4uujz9Rm95TDO7tLZXP4kDBxuhZxeP/660wcG+WYK7tdecEJ4bS+4rnqhD15GeNbuxoYC yX3F+w53H6mFGHOEhr1wHZSjwd/a1uEnDOE26oZvNqnOnHrbQG/uVmgZ5zj0B4mH6KPCVe8N +2rFwjgB0EL7CjIEEYZCKggKFasHx5pBGyn0Dndv+P6CrWU2xMaG6LLj76CZADwIsAaRIhjf PkC35odPCCvkOjFUZSgnXv9J1QzM4A5SP/YiepN81/v4mFMNRX/0W/vOIb72N6RMuqBkuU9P E/E4our+8ymXzz3p94ahacBeyoGHiQz+F2XEJXrIfgC/Hp6dFk23uBzNXXy7AAAAAAAA --------------ms080304050903010903090100-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/