Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1423174AbbD2PVS (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:21:18 -0400 Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com ([209.85.223.180]:36782 "EHLO mail-ie0-f180.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1423119AbbD2PVM (ORCPT ); Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <5540F6E3.8000706@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:21:07 -0400 From: Austin S Hemmelgarn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Theodore Ts'o" , Harald Hoyer , Richard Weinberger , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 References: <21824.5086.446831.189915@quad.stoffel.home> <5540D2F9.2010704@redhat.com> <5540DEEB.2060405@redhat.com> <5540E0C7.3050106@nod.at> <5540E432.9020606@redhat.com> <5540E4D9.6000007@nod.at> <5540E684.4070606@redhat.com> <5540E821.8050204@nod.at> <5540F081.9090005@redhat.com> <20150429150341.GA12374@thunk.org> In-Reply-To: <20150429150341.GA12374@thunk.org> x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:tytso@mit.edu::84b9d1e4d6796609e7b9f42aff29b694:1690a96817e4f9f6 x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:harald@redhat.com::450b08fcf696a9884fe0e022e7c71d98:84a3597fcc8e3adf x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:richard@nod.at::609c1540ed2c1d856557ed92d6135772:9fe08573de475e71 x-hashcash: 1:21:150429:linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org::7b070486b6ac6c6cf8882bb36c5ade65:3e1bcd7da28a1739 x-stampprotocols: hashcash:1:17;mbound:0:10:3000:5000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000409030209050102090302" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 150429-0, 2015-04-29), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 6221 Lines: 109 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000409030209050102090302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-04-29 11:03, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 04:53:53PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: >> Sure, I can write one binary to rule them all, pull out all the code f= rom all >> tools I need, but for me an IPC mechanism sounds a lot better. And it = should be >> _one_ common IPC mechanism and not a plethora of them. It should feel = like an >> operating system and not like a bunch of thrown together software, whi= ch is >> glued together with some magic shell scripts. > > And so requiring wireshark (and X?) in initramfs to debug problems > once dbus is introduced is better? > > I would think shell scripts are *easier* to debug when things go > wrong, especially in a minimal environment such as an initial ram > disk. Having had to debug problems in a distro initramfs when trying > to help a customer bring up a FC boot disk long ago in another life, > I'm certain I would rather debug problems while on site at a > classified machine room[1] using shell scripts, and trying to debug > dbus is something that would be infinitely worse. > > - Ted > > [1] So no laptop, no google, no access to sources to figure out random > dbus messages, etc. Likewise. I keep hearing from people that shell scripting is hard, it really isn't = compared to a number of other scripting languages, you just need to=20 actually learn to do it right (which is getting more and more difficult=20 these days cause fewer and fewer CS schools are teaching Unix). --------------ms000409030209050102090302 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGuDCC BrQwggScoAMCAQICAxBuVTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xNTAz MjUxOTM0MzhaFw0xNTA5MjExOTM0MzhaMGMxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0NBY2VydCBXb1QgVXNlcjEj MCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUYWhmZXJyb2luN0BnbWFpbC5jb20xIjAgBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWE2Fo ZW1tZWxnQG9oaW9ndC5jb20wggIiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4ICDwAwggIKAoICAQCdD/zW 2rRAFCLnDfXpWxU1+ODqRVUgzHvrRO7ADUxRo1CBDc3JSX5TIW2OGmQ3DAKGOACp8Z0sgxMc B05tzAZ/M7m4jajVrwwdVCdrwVGxTdAai7Kwg4ZCVfyMVhcwo8R2eW3QahBx34G0RKumK9sZ ZQSQ+zULAzpY6uz7T1sAk/erMoivRXF6u8WvOsLkOD1F/Xyv1ZccSUG5YeDgZgc0nZUBvyIp zXSHjgWerFkrxEM3y2z/Ff3eL1sgGYecV/I1F+I5S01V7Kclt/qRW10c/4JEGRcI1FmrJBPu BtMYPbg/3Y9LZROYN+mVIFxZxOfrmjfFZ96xt/TaMXo8vcEKtWcNEjhGBjEbfMUEm4aq8ygQ 4MuEcpJc8DJCHBkg2KBk13DkbU2qNepTD6Uip1C+g+KMr0nd6KOJqSH27ZuNY4xqV4hIxFHp ex0zY7mq6fV2o6sKBGQzRdI20FDYmNjsLJwjH6qJ8laxFphZnPRpBThmu0AjuBWE72GnI1oA aO+bs92MQGJernt7hByCnDO82W/ykbVz+Ge3Sax8NY0m2Xdvp6WFDY/PjD9CdaJ9nwQGsUSa N54lrZ2qMTeCI9Vauwf6U69BA42xgk65VvxvTNqji+tZ4aZbarZ7el2/QDHOb/rRwlCFplS/ z4l1f1nOrE6bnDl5RBJyW3zi74P6GwIDAQABo4IBWTCCAVUwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADBWBglg hkgBhvhCAQ0ESRZHVG8gZ2V0IHlvdXIgb3duIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIGZvciBGUkVFIGhlYWQg b3ZlciB0byBodHRwOi8vd3d3LkNBY2VydC5vcmcwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgOoMEAGA1UdJQQ5 MDcGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4 QgQBMDIGCCsGAQUFBwEBBCYwJDAiBggrBgEFBQcwAYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9y ZzAxBgNVHR8EKjAoMCagJKAihiBodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNhY2VydC5vcmcvcmV2b2tlLmNybDA0 BgNVHREELTArgRRhaGZlcnJvaW43QGdtYWlsLmNvbYETYWhlbW1lbGdAb2hpb2d0LmNvbTAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FAAOCAgEAGvl7xb42JMRH5D/vCIDYvFY3dR2FPd5kmOqpKU/fvQ8ovmJa p5N/FDrsCL+YdslxPY+AAn78PYmL5pFHTdRadT++07DPIMtQyy2qd+XRmz6zP8Il7vGcEDmO WmMLYMq4xV9s/N7t7JJp6ftdIYUcoTVChUgilDaRWMLidtslCdRsBVfUjPb1bF5Ua31diKDP e0M9/e2CU36rbcTtiNCXhptMigzuL3zJXUf2B9jyUV8pnqNEQH36fqJ7YTBLcpq3aYa2XbAH Hgx9GehJBIqwspDmhPCFZ/QmqUXCkt+XfvinQ2NzKR6P3+OdYbwqzVX8BdMeojh7Ig8x/nIx mQ+/ufstL1ZYp0bg13fyK/hPYSIBpayaC76vzWovkIm70DIDRIFLi20p/qTd7rfDYy831Hjm +lDdCECF9bIXEWFk33kA97dgQIMbf5chEmlFg8S0e4iw7LMjvRqMX3eCD8GJ2+oqyZUwzZxy S0Mx+rBld5rrN7LsXwZ671HsGqNeYbYeU25e7t7/Gcc6Bd/kPfA+adEuUGFcvUKH3trDYqNq 6mOkAd8WO/mQadlc3ztS++XDMhmIpfBre9MPAr6usqf+wc+R8Nk9KLK39kEgrqVfzc/fgf8L MaD4rHnusdg4gca6Yi+kNrm99anw7SwaBrBvULYBp7ixNRUhaYiNW4YjTrYxggShMIIEnQIB ATCBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5v cmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW EnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggH1MBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzEL BgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTE1MDQyOTE1MjEwN1owIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkE MRYEFHDj7HllMyNmarEMwM3Zsz7R+Ar3MGwGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFfMF0wCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEq MAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwgZEGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBgzCBgDB5MRAwDgYD VQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMT GUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2Fj ZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMIGTBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBg6CBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENB MR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2ln bmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5V MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIICAAWCkAcNOv1SP+5UcvUsRYwNJy9PEZkqmIWqZZg4d4OC9fmS dIYijNCMY70X7N3GqrKHH2nvQSYdE7KPkerzZNA3QDVqJ5jzVn3VoOLwnLABkdT+iko09vA8 k9qBMFBAVdPW2v/KWnZj8Fj42/y/lJOHJUPcNmxrPysKoFQXZAJisvj5FQZfKh90KDk1zUOj bbKjq04M6yb3Ekq18ldBik0Gav7IyThjj2YLovhBta/NZxket9vpAUBgWZRPNdEFlkzPIc9u s0aYDvEFd4kRoCY/R5zlIfg6QKymbIww5U/d5Aj/k22b75EzJl8SnDSmIyfN24XS5R88ouVT uXviSeI0jPSAtojiXmlG/UUQAREFyry4Sa3ks4lcp4U+ogz+j/kUx6fNA8nqVkbt/EMZIc7n rvqdLbTGzTlXjjv12rweqadC8mdBm+m8uc5zwYF/RjEOy0kJY/TwyNIGm4HHLb/hgSDljDdI GGwqaCeElb0ncRgX7BuQSKRxa/CxdFzQIjp4sroTOqtTghOhxxW8Xaf37OXMEekpCnXbfTZi EgK1gCGeXXErV+dPAq0cPmL4FGUEJ9emRqw1OsObvM1L9EdS8ODt3GVW1jA+v46kuhME40hj DgNm6eCc7J86xB7zOxIHl9iBfKdpc8w2iFAPPI9f3Hdamp5adqHzibHGu7PJAAAAAAAA --------------ms000409030209050102090302-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/