To: Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com>
Cc: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>, Harald Hoyer <harald@redhat.com>,
        Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
        "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1
References: <21824.5086.446831.189915@quad.stoffel.home>
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 <5540DEEB.2060405@redhat.com> <5540E0C7.3050106@nod.at>
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 <5540E684.4070606@redhat.com> <5540E821.8050204@nod.at>
 <5540F081.9090005@redhat.com> <20150429150341.GA12374@thunk.org>
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From: =?utf-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz_Stelmach?= <l.stelmach@samsung.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:05:17 +0200
In-reply-to: <5540F6E3.8000706@gmail.com>
Message-id: <871tj2ouk2.fsf%l.stelmach@samsung.com>
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It was <2015-04-29 =C5=9Bro 17:21>, when Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
> On 2015-04-29 11:03, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 04:53:53PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote:
>>> Sure, I can write one binary to rule them all, pull out all the code fr=
om all
>>> tools I need, but for me an IPC mechanism sounds a lot better. And it s=
hould be
>>> _one_ common IPC mechanism and not a plethora of them. It should feel l=
ike an
>>> operating system and not like a bunch of thrown together software, whic=
h is
>>> glued together with some magic shell scripts.
>>
>> And so requiring wireshark (and X?) in initramfs to debug problems
>> once dbus is introduced is better?
>>
>> I would think shell scripts are *easier* to debug when things go
>> wrong,
[...]
> I keep hearing from people that shell scripting is hard, it really
> isn't compared to a number of other scripting languages, you just need
> to actually learn to do it right (which is getting more and more
> difficult these days cause fewer and fewer CS schools are teaching
> Unix).

My 2/100 of a currency of your choice.

As much as I like(ed) shell scripts as a boot up tool and disliked
obscure boot-up procedures of some operating system, I can't help but
notice that GNU/Linux distributions have become very
sophisticated/complcated (cross out if not applicable). Personally
I=C2=A0feel that this degree of coplexity can't be supported by shell scrip=
ts
piping data around. It does not scale. I am not 100% sure a new IPC is
the answer, simply because I do not have experience to be so. It
definitely can be and the problem, as I see it, is real.

(The alternative answer is PowerShells capability to pipe objects. I
don't like it and I thik it's not a full answer.)

Regardless, of initrd issues I feel there is a need of a local IPC that
is more capable than UDS. Linus Torvalds is probably right that
dbus-daemon is everything but effictient. I disagree, however, that it
can be optimised and therefore solve *all* issues kdbus is trying to
address. dbus-deamon, by design, can't some things. It can't transmitt
large payloads without copying them. It can't be made race-free.

Kind regards,
=2D-=20
=C5=81ukasz Stelmach
Samsung R&D Institute Poland
Samsung Electronics

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