From: Steve Grubb <sgrubb@redhat.com>
To: Aristeu Rozanski <arozansk@redhat.com>
Cc: Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com>, containers@lists.linux-foundation.org,
        linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-audit@redhat.com,
        eparis@parisplace.org, pmoore@redhat.com, ebiederm@xmission.com,
        serge@hallyn.com, zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk,
        linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
        netdev@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH V6 05/10] audit: log creation and deletion of namespace instances
Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 10:46:44 -0400
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Organization: Red Hat
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On Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:31:20 AM Aristeu Rozanski wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 10:22:32AM -0400, Steve Grubb wrote:
> > The requirements for auditing of containers should be derived from VPP. In
> > it, it asks for selectable auditing, selective audit, and selective audit
> > review. What this means is that we need the container and all its
> > children to have one identifier that is inserted into all the events that
> > are associated with the container.
> > 
> > With this, its possible to do a search for all events related to a
> > container. Its possible to exclude events from a container. Its possible
> > to not get any events.
> > 
> > The requirements also call out for the identification of the subject. This
> > means that the event should be bound to a syscall such as clone, setns, or
> > unshare.
> > 
> > Also, any user space events originating inside the container needs to have
> > the container ID added to the user space event - just like auid and
> > session id.
> > 
> > Recording each instance of a name space is giving me something that I
> > cannot use to do queries required by the security target. Given these
> > events, how do I locate a web server event where it accesses a watched
> > file? That authentication failed? That an update within the container
> > failed?
> > 
> > The requirements are that we have to log the creation, suspension,
> > migration, and termination of a container. The requirements are not on
> > the individual name space.
> > 
> > Maybe I'm missing how these events give me that. But I'd like to hear how
> > I  would be able to meet requirements with these 12 events.
> 
> what about cases you don't use lxc, libvirt to create namespaces?

There's a pretty good chance that we don't care. We've had file system 
namespace for about 8 or 9 years and we never needed to have a namespace 
identifier added.

> It's easier if the logging is done by namespaces and in case they're created
> by any container manager, it can generate a new event notifying it
> created a container named "foo" with these namespaces: x, y, z, w and
> from that you can piece together everything that happened.

OK, if they are emitted they should be an auxiliary record to clone, setns, or 
unshare system calls. But lets go down this path. We have 6 or so name spaces. 
These identifiers will need to be added to every single event in the system so 
that I can figure out what event belongs to which container. 


> Userspace tools can change to adapt to using namespaces and the idea of
> container to make it easier to lookup for events instead of relying on a
> number that might not be there (think someone using unshare, ip netns, ...).

That's what I am trying to do...figure out how I can these identifiers to see if 
this actually solves the problem. This is why I wanted to state the actual 
requirements. Its easy to lose the overall view.

Also, I am concerned about how much extra disk space this is going to eat up.


> It was discussed in the past and having the concept of "container" in
> kernel space and it's not going to happen, so userspace should deal with
> it.

This is what I am asking for help with. How do I locate an authentication 
event from container using the information in these events?

-Steve
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