Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752306AbbEGMEu (ORCPT ); Thu, 7 May 2015 08:04:50 -0400 Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]:36201 "EHLO mail-ie0-f176.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751650AbbEGMEp (ORCPT ); Thu, 7 May 2015 08:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: <554B54D8.1060001@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 08:04:40 -0400 From: Austin S Hemmelgarn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Lang , linuxcbon linuxcbon CC: Ken Moffat , Richard Weinberger , LKML Subject: Re: how to have the kernel do udev's job and autoload the right modules ? References: <5547B89B.5070502@nod.at> <5547FFB8.5050007@nod.at> <20150505222644.GA27497@milliways> <20150506165556.GA23190@milliways> In-Reply-To: x-hashcash: 1:21:150507:david@lang.hm::3d2e8fe7f99674d862fcaeea2de87319:69cc664332edce4f x-hashcash: 1:21:150507:linuxcbon@gmail.com::4ddbe4709043975fc679ad0c6abe88a:428359ffb9256de0 x-hashcash: 1:21:150507:zarniwhoop@ntlworld.com::a7c560c753c278f68d83174fb3ec80be:cdfcd464bedcdfc5 x-hashcash: 1:21:150507:richard@nod.at::a726b69cdc23d73d6ed16b21dd8702ff:3a296f5465338319 x-hashcash: 1:21:150507:linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org::23ff8dbd9c1053274ca1ef4bdbd72cc9:82d7d5fa84dbda22 x-stampprotocols: hashcash:1:17;mbound:0:10:3000:5000 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060702080903080001070906" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 150507-0, 2015-05-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 6352 Lines: 112 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060702080903080001070906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-05-06 16:49, David Lang wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 2015, linuxcbon linuxcbon wrote: > >> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 7:53 PM, David Lang wrote: >>> It's perfectly legitimate to not want to use udev, but that doesn't m= ean >>> that the kernel will (or should) do it for you. >>> David Lang >> >> When I boot the kernel without modules, I don't have anything working >> except "minimal video". >> I think the kernel should give a minimal support for network, sound an= d >> video, even if 0 modules are loaded. I am just dreaming, > > You can do that, you just need to build in all the network and sound > drivers (and pick which driver in the case of conflicts) > > There isn't such a thing as a 'generic' network or sound card. For vide= o > there is 'VGA video' which is used by default on x86 systems, but even > that's a driver that could be disabled. > To explain further, video has a standardized hardware level API (VGA and = VBE) because it is considered critical system functionality (which is BS = in my opinion, you can get by just fine with a serial console, but=20 that's irrelevant to this discussion). Sound is traditionally not=20 considered critical, and therefore doesn't have a standardized hardware=20 API. Networking is (traditionally) only considered critical if the=20 system is booting off the network, and therefore only has a standardized = API (part of the PXE spec, known as UNDI) on some systems, and even then = only when they are configured to netboot (and IIRC, also only when the=20 processor is in real mode, just like for all other BIOS calls). --------------ms060702080903080001070906 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGuDCC BrQwggScoAMCAQICAxBuVTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xNTAz MjUxOTM0MzhaFw0xNTA5MjExOTM0MzhaMGMxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0NBY2VydCBXb1QgVXNlcjEj MCEGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYUYWhmZXJyb2luN0BnbWFpbC5jb20xIjAgBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWE2Fo ZW1tZWxnQG9oaW9ndC5jb20wggIiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4ICDwAwggIKAoICAQCdD/zW 2rRAFCLnDfXpWxU1+ODqRVUgzHvrRO7ADUxRo1CBDc3JSX5TIW2OGmQ3DAKGOACp8Z0sgxMc B05tzAZ/M7m4jajVrwwdVCdrwVGxTdAai7Kwg4ZCVfyMVhcwo8R2eW3QahBx34G0RKumK9sZ ZQSQ+zULAzpY6uz7T1sAk/erMoivRXF6u8WvOsLkOD1F/Xyv1ZccSUG5YeDgZgc0nZUBvyIp zXSHjgWerFkrxEM3y2z/Ff3eL1sgGYecV/I1F+I5S01V7Kclt/qRW10c/4JEGRcI1FmrJBPu BtMYPbg/3Y9LZROYN+mVIFxZxOfrmjfFZ96xt/TaMXo8vcEKtWcNEjhGBjEbfMUEm4aq8ygQ 4MuEcpJc8DJCHBkg2KBk13DkbU2qNepTD6Uip1C+g+KMr0nd6KOJqSH27ZuNY4xqV4hIxFHp ex0zY7mq6fV2o6sKBGQzRdI20FDYmNjsLJwjH6qJ8laxFphZnPRpBThmu0AjuBWE72GnI1oA aO+bs92MQGJernt7hByCnDO82W/ykbVz+Ge3Sax8NY0m2Xdvp6WFDY/PjD9CdaJ9nwQGsUSa N54lrZ2qMTeCI9Vauwf6U69BA42xgk65VvxvTNqji+tZ4aZbarZ7el2/QDHOb/rRwlCFplS/ z4l1f1nOrE6bnDl5RBJyW3zi74P6GwIDAQABo4IBWTCCAVUwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADBWBglg hkgBhvhCAQ0ESRZHVG8gZ2V0IHlvdXIgb3duIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlIGZvciBGUkVFIGhlYWQg b3ZlciB0byBodHRwOi8vd3d3LkNBY2VydC5vcmcwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgOoMEAGA1UdJQQ5 MDcGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAgYKKwYBBAGCNwoDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDAwYJYIZIAYb4 QgQBMDIGCCsGAQUFBwEBBCYwJDAiBggrBgEFBQcwAYYWaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY2FjZXJ0Lm9y ZzAxBgNVHR8EKjAoMCagJKAihiBodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNhY2VydC5vcmcvcmV2b2tlLmNybDA0 BgNVHREELTArgRRhaGZlcnJvaW43QGdtYWlsLmNvbYETYWhlbW1lbGdAb2hpb2d0LmNvbTAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQ0FAAOCAgEAGvl7xb42JMRH5D/vCIDYvFY3dR2FPd5kmOqpKU/fvQ8ovmJa p5N/FDrsCL+YdslxPY+AAn78PYmL5pFHTdRadT++07DPIMtQyy2qd+XRmz6zP8Il7vGcEDmO WmMLYMq4xV9s/N7t7JJp6ftdIYUcoTVChUgilDaRWMLidtslCdRsBVfUjPb1bF5Ua31diKDP e0M9/e2CU36rbcTtiNCXhptMigzuL3zJXUf2B9jyUV8pnqNEQH36fqJ7YTBLcpq3aYa2XbAH Hgx9GehJBIqwspDmhPCFZ/QmqUXCkt+XfvinQ2NzKR6P3+OdYbwqzVX8BdMeojh7Ig8x/nIx mQ+/ufstL1ZYp0bg13fyK/hPYSIBpayaC76vzWovkIm70DIDRIFLi20p/qTd7rfDYy831Hjm +lDdCECF9bIXEWFk33kA97dgQIMbf5chEmlFg8S0e4iw7LMjvRqMX3eCD8GJ2+oqyZUwzZxy S0Mx+rBld5rrN7LsXwZ671HsGqNeYbYeU25e7t7/Gcc6Bd/kPfA+adEuUGFcvUKH3trDYqNq 6mOkAd8WO/mQadlc3ztS++XDMhmIpfBre9MPAr6usqf+wc+R8Nk9KLK39kEgrqVfzc/fgf8L MaD4rHnusdg4gca6Yi+kNrm99anw7SwaBrBvULYBp7ixNRUhaYiNW4YjTrYxggShMIIEnQIB ATCBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5v cmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW EnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggH1MBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzEL BgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTE1MDUwNzEyMDQ0MFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkE MRYEFNlWK05pGvJfBcwE62n5gdCvow9QMGwGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFfMF0wCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEq MAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwIC AUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwgZEGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBgzCBgDB5MRAwDgYD VQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMT GUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2Fj ZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5VMIGTBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBg6CBgDB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENB MR4wHAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2ln bmluZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZwIDEG5V MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIICAJWaNvz+urJT5aPAUpJCRM3css2PT7bowP5mr9fut+13wb1Q J8LdjTbLS69HxkLGfd2LvbTEj0MIIpFUQWFRaV5QY96kxuDyFE7kSLqC7mukXipHMObWewHo HSS7RM/QRlsepkkx8CjVzL0hAKJBTgW8UADOYMvVWAHpEWitIBFdlG6sJ/DkEcbf3zq/mclg NA8vGYJD6q7LP+FjDS/ZBnelV+tWguht1NCaEf2bOmtxsocxyu7sUv6XyDczPWoJuyroC0d6 2V/jF63OQOkbCJw55+IPAVGXT1jw2lE18yyevOet2HmzDAEVCPcbqUrD05HvQAaDJ6UuNTOL y0xWSQLu6Cr6rnb0K3EQG5RGe0+ZyWBu4kGAh4GksjT0MdIuryR0pOtFaiC/VC0N+JFe+gam idsjX/+Dw3zJbZA6su6DUAidmPRaJdOOMzt5kXfyc72SOmi73PYuKB2gy0Yoc2idiYNbqsSX Nbazhu7r5dumeTm7plx4YKEGocIDiNSZ1N1ihidpgRrSOgz6fddyf38NiZMLzT8xy/MxBbpx QmFF+AyRiMRYqtVyScMZgnQnV2rbOhd7jCHTrXFBNTUCxy4D66Y/RFg6cmojESehypMHerJj qDEoV6qNclIdP/N3VP/w9UGGvhfTy06ZhjnUoIRupm7QSMIpkjy7xAjvO3gLAAAAAAAA --------------ms060702080903080001070906-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/