Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754764AbbETQqd (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 May 2015 12:46:33 -0400 Received: from lan.nucleusys.com ([92.247.61.126]:42914 "EHLO zztop.nucleusys.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753388AbbETQq1 (ORCPT ); Wed, 20 May 2015 12:46:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:46:13 +0300 From: Petko Manolov To: One Thousand Gnomes Cc: Seth Forshee , "Luis R. Rodriguez" , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, james.l.morris@oracle.com, serge@hallyn.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, David Howells , Kyle McMartin , David Woodhouse , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Joey Lee , Rusty Russell , zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com, mricon@kernel.org Subject: Re: [RFD] linux-firmware key arrangement for firmware signing Message-ID: <20150520164613.GD10473@localhost> Mail-Followup-To: One Thousand Gnomes , Seth Forshee , "Luis R. Rodriguez" , linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, james.l.morris@oracle.com, serge@hallyn.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, David Howells , Kyle McMartin , David Woodhouse , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Joey Lee , Rusty Russell , zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com, mricon@kernel.org References: <20150519200232.GM23057@wotan.suse.de> <20150520140426.GB126473@ubuntu-hedt> <20150520172446.4dab5399@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150520172446.4dab5399@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "zztop.nucleusys.com", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 15-05-20 17:24:46, One Thousand Gnomes wrote: > > More to the point why do you want to sign firmware files ? Leaving aside the > fact that someone will produce a device with GPLv3 firmware just to p*ss you > off there's the rather more relevant fact that firmware for devices on a so > called "trusted" platform already have signed firmware. [...] Content analysis details: (-1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1485 Lines: 29 On 15-05-20 17:24:46, One Thousand Gnomes wrote: > > More to the point why do you want to sign firmware files ? Leaving aside the > fact that someone will produce a device with GPLv3 firmware just to p*ss you > off there's the rather more relevant fact that firmware for devices on a so > called "trusted" platform already have signed firmware. For "trusted" systems one would like to make sure everything that goes in has known provenance. Maybe this was the idea? > For external devices I don't normally have access to read system memory > anyway, and signing firmware would achieve nothing unless you start doing > crazy DRM style key exchanges to prove the endpoint is trusted. Any NSA trojan > wifi stick is simply going to nod as the correct firmware is uploaded, and > then ignore it. And if I'm just out to be a pain I can already just plug in a > fake device claiming to be a usb disk with 256 bytes per sector (boom... exit > machine stage right), or for that matter wire a USB stick with 5v connected to > the mains at the nearest wall socket. Yep, gaining physical access to the system is a game over. It is arguable how "trusted" a networked machine could be and i guess the answer is "not much"... Petko -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/