Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Received: from mail.webmaster.com ([216.152.64.131]:20373 "EHLO shell.webmaster.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id convert rfc822-to-8bit; Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:01:50 -0500 From: David Schwartz To: CC: Linux Kernel Mailing List X-Mailer: PocoMail 2.63 (1077) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:11:36 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200302112042.h1BKgTPu014960@eeyore.valparaiso.cl> Subject: Re: Monta Vista software license terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <20030211221137.AAA18793@shell.webmaster.com@whenever> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4855 Lines: 117 On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:42:29 +0100, Horst von Brand wrote: >David Schwartz said: >>On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:42:26 +0100, Horst von Brand wrote: >>>The GPL gives me the right to distribute modified versions _only >>>if >I >>>comply with the GPL_. And GPL forbids further restrictions when >>>distributing. >>I realize that. But that has nothing to do with what I said, >>which >>analyzes only those rights you have without agreeing to the GPL by >>virtue of the fact that you possess the work and were not subject >>to >>any restrictions in the process of acquiring and using it. >I just don't get it. If I get sources to foo under the GPL, I can >spindle >and mutilate them to my heart's content at home. But as soon as I do >distribute it, the GPL is in force. There is no "not bound by the >GPL >because I'm not doing ..." and then distributing "and I wasn't bound >by >GPL, so..." But you don't need to distribute the rights to the Linux kernel because already already has the rights to the Linux kernel. And when you say you "get sources .. under the GPL", you're implying that you have to assent to the GPL to get sources, but you don't. The GPL is not a shrink-wrap agreement and you don't have to assent to it just to receive or use sources. There is no distribution issue because everyone already has the right to possess and use every GPL'd work, so there are no rights to distribute. I'm puzzled whether you're actually reading and thinking about what I'm saying, because your responses seem to indicate that either you're not taking the time to understand me or I'm not being clear enough. >>>If your bizarre interpretation was right, no software licence at >>>all >>>would have any validity. In particular, I'd be more than very >>>surprised >>>if the GPL was so sloppily written. It was written with the input >>>of >>>eminent lawyers, after all. >> Your generalization doesn't apply because of several major >>differences between most software licenses and the GPL: >> >> 1) Most software licenses do not grant everyone the right to use >>the >>work covered. > >Irrelevant. >> 3) Most software licenses require your assent before you can use >>the >>covered work, in fact, most require your assent before you have the >>right to possess the covered work. >Don't see the relevance here. Besides, you never "possess" anything, >you are just given permision to use. I'll explain it again, repeating myself more slowly. Nobody signs the GPL. So the only way you can determine whether or not someone is bound by the GPL is if they did something that they could not have obtained the right to do other than by the GPL. You don't need to assent to the GPL to receive GPL'd works. You don't need to assent to the GPL to distribute rights to use a GPL'd work (because everyone is already given that right). So what did you do that you couldn't do without the GPL? The answer is that you distributed a derived work to people who already had the right to possess the original work. I am saying that that is not an *additional* right to the *original* work. It's the simple sum of other rights. So you don't need to assent to the GPL to get it. The difference with other software licenses is that you *do* need to assent to them to get the rights you already have without the GPL. For example, with Microsoft's EULA, you don't have the right to use the work without assenting to the EUAL, so mere use of the work can be used as proof of assent. As an example, suppose you and I both have some greeting card program. I produce a greeting card that includes some graphics included with the greeting card program. That greeting card is a derived work. I can't distribute it to anyone I want because it contains embedded graphics and I would be distributing those graphics to people who had no right to them. On the other hand, if I distributed it only to people who also owned the greeting card program, there would be no rights question. Every recipient of my derived work already has the rights to use and possess the work from which it is derived. The only additional right they need is the right to my modifications, which I can give them. Again, the right to possess and use a derivative work when you already have the right to possess and use the original work and the right to make the derivative work is not an *additional* right to the *original* work. I can't say it any clearer than that, and I welcome any citations to law or court precedent to the contrary. -- David Schwartz - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/