Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S933182AbcDSQJL (ORCPT ); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:09:11 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:54037 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754859AbcDSQJJ (ORCPT ); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:09:09 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:09:03 +0300 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Andy Lutomirski Cc: David Woodhouse , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org Developers" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Paolo Bonzini , peterx@redhat.com, Cornelia Huck , Stefan Hajnoczi , Kevin Wolf , Amit Shah , qemu-block@nongnu.org, Jason Wang , Alex Williamson , Andy Lutomirski , Christian Borntraeger , Wei Liu , Linux Virtualization , kvm list Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] fixup! virtio: convert to use DMA api Message-ID: <20160419190520-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> References: <1460988232.22654.7.camel@infradead.org> <20160418170534-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> <1460992923.3765.8.camel@infradead.org> <20160418182320-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> <1460994701.3765.23.camel@infradead.org> <20160418190203-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> <1461004173.3765.73.camel@infradead.org> <20160419130732-mutt-send-email-mst@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.38]); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:09:09 +0000 (UTC) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 2081 Lines: 43 On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 09:02:14AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 3:27 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 12:24:15PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:29 AM, David Woodhouse wrote: > >> > For x86, you *can* enable virtio-behind-IOMMU if your DMAR tables tell > >> > the truth, and even legacy kernels ought to cope with that. > >> > FSVO 'ought to' where I suspect some of them will actually crash with a > >> > NULL pointer dereference if there's no "catch-all" DMAR unit in the > >> > tables, which puts it back into the same camp as ARM and Power. > >> > >> I think x86 may get a bit of a free pass here. AFAIK the QEMU IOMMU > >> implementation on x86 has always been "experimental", so it just might > >> be okay to change it in a way that causes some older kernels to OOPS. > >> > >> --Andy > > > > Since it's experimental, it might be OK to change *guest kernels* > > such that they oops on old QEMU. > > But guest kernels were not experimental - so we need a QEMU mode that > > makes them work fine. The more functionality is available in this QEMU > > mode, the betterm because it's going to be the default for a while. For > > the same reason, it is preferable to also have new kernels not crash in > > this mode. > > > > People add QEMU features that need new guest kernels all time time. > If you enable virtio-scsi and try to boot a guest that's too old, it > won't work. So I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with saying > that the non-experimental QEMU Q35 IOMMU mode won't boot if the guest > kernel is too old. It might be annoying, since old kernels do work on > actual Q35 hardware, but it at least seems to be that it might be > okay. > > --Andy Yes but we need a mode that makes both old and new kernels work, and that should be the default for a while. this is what the IOMMU_PASSTHROUGH flag was about: old kernels ignore it and bypass DMA API, new kernels go "oh compatibility mode" and bypass the IOMMU within DMA API. -- MST