Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S262251AbTEZVQN (ORCPT ); Mon, 26 May 2003 17:16:13 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S262252AbTEZVQN (ORCPT ); Mon, 26 May 2003 17:16:13 -0400 Received: from willy.net1.nerim.net ([62.212.114.60]:52999 "EHLO www.home.local") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262251AbTEZVQK (ORCPT ); Mon, 26 May 2003 17:16:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 23:29:02 +0200 From: Willy Tarreau To: Marcelo Tosatti Cc: "David S. Miller" , Linux Kernel Subject: Re: Aix7xxx unstable in 2.4.21-rc2? (RE: Linux 2.4.21-rc2) Message-ID: <20030526212902.GA13550@alpha.home.local> References: <1053732598.1951.13.camel@mulgrave> <20030524064340.GA1451@alpha.home.local> <1053923112.14018.16.camel@rth.ninka.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4567 Lines: 81 On Mon, May 26, 2003 at 03:42:42PM -0300, Marcelo Tosatti wrote: > Splitting up the work with someone is senseless, IMO. As I said before, > 2.4.22-pre should be better in that aspect. In case it doesnt, I'm giving > up 2.4.x maintenance. Marcelo, Reading your words, I have the sad feeling that you take no interest in doing this job, and that you do it only because people ask you to. What a shame :-( Although it sure can be annoying, aren't you proud of each new release ? Usually, kernel integrators are proud of their new kernels when they get something rock solid ! People like Con Kolivas, J.A.Magallon, Marc-Christian Pettersen are often proud to announce us the few bits they changed in their tree and which stabilized it. It seems you only do this as an obligation, which is sad, really. I understand that maintaining the stable tree, the one which MUST NOT FAIL, may be frustrating, not being as excitant as playing with kernels which try to get the most of every piece of hardware, as others do (although nobody prevents you from developing your own Wolk). But you don't seem to share much about your feelings, ideas or doubts with others. Alan, for example, exchanges a lot with people testing his kernels, suggesting a few tweaks to help them workaround their problems, and integrating the tweak in the next release if it succeeds. This fast feedback allows him to release more often. It also makes his work more intersting for others. People often prefer "here is -rcxx-acxx, which my EPIA now fully supports" to "here is -rcxx, please test it extensively". Perhaps you don't feel assurance when you have to blindly integrate hundreds of patches from people you don't always trust, and that may explain why you suddenly announce a new pre-release and keep silent, hoping for patch authors to reply to questions if any ? If this is the case, jump into the train, there's no risk, except of being caught by Rik's troll-o-meter, or having Viro or hch insult you ! And then ? What's the matter ? Every one has his turn. I even risk it with this OT mail. When you started with 2.4.16, you said that you were afraid you lacked some skills, but you proved to be very capable, because the kernel has moved since, and 2.4.21 should be far more stable than 2.4.16 ! This mail is not intended to give you any lesson, but to give a feedback from a Linux 2.4 user who, as many others, feels more and more forgotten by his maintainer. Unfortunately, what David wrote is what many people currently think of 2.4 :-( You threatened to give up, but that would be bad for your image and for Linux. Giving up means no maintainer for a certain amount of time, then a self-proclamed new maintainer (or worse, several ones with a tree fork). Being replaced is cleaner, since you do the job until the new maintainer is ready to start. If you don't have enough time to do everything, send a source quench, or apply one of David's proposed solutions : ask for some help so that only subsystems maintainers feed you as some already do (eg: David, Jeff, Greg), or ask for a pure replacement. If you're bored, that I could understand, because having to deal with arrogant and sometimes even selfish users is not always pleasant, ask for a replacement. If you're fed up with patches that you don't understand, reject them LOUDLY asking for more documentation. And if you plan to have a rest for two weeks, say it, so that people don't send you patches that will be lost in a full mailbox at your return. Yes, this may be what Linus did before you, when people already complained. But there should be a middle line between how he managed his kernel and how you manage it, and BTW, Linus clearly stated that maintaining 2.4 bored him. I've just read your mail about -rc[45]. I'm happy we start to see the light at the end of the 2.4.21 tunnel. As others people, I'm now impatient to both 2.4.21 and 2.4.22-pre1. BTW, as discussed perhaps a year or two ago, you could have a preview of 2.4.22-pre1 in parallel with 2.4.21-rc, to feed the impatients, although that may be double work, which you don't necessarily need at the moment. And remember, please communicate, communicate, communicate. You and only you know what problem you have at a given time. If you don't communicate, people always imagine the worst. Regards, Willy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/