Message-ID: <94D43CABC1C4FA43B0FD9B52F70565A12D1CC6@xcgfl021.northgrum.com>
From: "Watson, Craig" <craig.watson@ngc.com>
To: "'Larry McVoy'" <lm@bitmover.com>, Jesse Pollard <jesse@cats-chateau.net>
Cc: Stephan von Krawczynski <skraw@ithnet.com>,
       Werner Almesberger <wa@almesberger.net>, miquels@cistron-office.nl,
       linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:12:41 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry McVoy [mailto:lm@bitmover.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:45 PM
> To: Jesse Pollard
> Cc: Larry McVoy; Stephan von Krawczynski; Werner Almesberger;
> miquels@cistron-office.nl; linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Troll Tech [was Re: Sco vs. IBM]
> 
> 
> > so you are saying there should be only one OS.
> 
> No, I'm saying that you should dream up new stuff on your own 
> instead of
> complaining about the licenses of the software that other 
> people dream 
> up.  If you want open source software, then *create* some.  If all you
> are able to do is copy some existing software, you're 
> profoundly limited
> in what you can accomplish and you are really big trouble if 
> your copying
> cuts off the supply of things to copy.
> 
> It's sort of like saying "Daddy is paying for college but 
> when you get 
> out of college you have to figure out how to make a living, you might
> want to start thinking about that".  In fact, it's a lot like that.
> -- 
> ---
> Larry McVoy              lm at bitmover.com          
> http://www.bitmover.com/lm
> -
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> 

I agree with Larry that you don't see much innovation in the open
source world and I worry about how future innovation will be
financed if the Sun's go away.  I tried to make a list of software
"innovations" that I have seen in my career.  It was pretty short.
That being said, it seems to me you just don't see many big 
innovations in software.

However, I think we are seeing some innovation in the work Greg
Kroah-Hartman, Alan Stern, Patrick Mochel, I?aky P?rez-Gonz?lez,
et al are doing trying to develop a class oriented file structure in
the device driver realm of the kernel (Re: Flaw in the driver-model
implementation of attributes)  I've been following that thread
because I see some real innovation there.  I don't think I'm really
qualified to contribute but it is great to watch.  As is evident in
that thread, real innovation isn't easy.  It takes hard work and a
lot of back and forth banter to really hone a new idea into something
worthwhile.  Maybe some of the guys Alan is putting through the
wringer don't always feel too happy about his questions but in the
long run his scrutiny will contribute to a better product.  Myself,
I really appreciate the work these guys are doing.  Innovation is
much harder than copying.  Most people doing it as a hobby aren't
willing to put in the effort it takes to really make an innovative
contribution.

If these guys actually hammer out a clear and consistent improvement
in the organization of the device driver structure, I think we'll
have to chalk that up as an open source innovation.

Craig Watson
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