Subject: Re: [Linux-ima-devel] [PATCH, RESEND 08/12] ima: added parser for RPM
 data type
To: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>
References: <20170725154423.24845-9-roberto.sassu@huawei.com>
 <20170801102036.15371-1-roberto.sassu@huawei.com>
 <20170801102709.GA24285@infradead.org>
 <11206fd8-d189-deb0-ab67-aec373f8d979@huawei.com>
 <alpine.LRH.2.20.1708021716440.1117@namei.org>
 <0506050f-c4f1-1b36-a25b-c5418607906d@huawei.com>
 <1502289048.19092.62.camel@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
 <fffaf219-a633-478a-ec0e-2869419fe3b0@huawei.com>
 <1502370765.3367.69.camel@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
CC: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>, <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
        <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
        <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>, <keyrings@vger.kernel.org>,
        <linux-ima-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
        Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@linux.intel.com>
From: Roberto Sassu <roberto.sassu@huawei.com>
Message-ID: <edf5405d-ffc0-cd59-d590-e0a42741b633@huawei.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:15:52 +0200
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On 8/10/2017 3:12 PM, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 19:18 +0200, Roberto Sassu wrote:
>> On 8/9/2017 4:30 PM, Mimi Zohar wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2017-08-09 at 11:15 +0200, Roberto Sassu wrote:
>>>> On 8/2/2017 9:22 AM, James Morris wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 1 Aug 2017, Roberto Sassu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/1/2017 12:27 PM, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:20:36PM +0200, Roberto Sassu wrote:
>>>>>>>> This patch introduces a parser for RPM packages. It extracts the digests
>>>>>>>> from the RPMTAG_FILEDIGESTS header section and converts them to binary
>>>>>>>> data
>>>>>>>> before adding them to the hash table.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The advantage of this data type is that verifiers can determine who
>>>>>>>> produced that data, as headers are signed by Linux distributions vendors.
>>>>>>>> RPM headers signatures can be provided as digest list metadata.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Err, parsing arbitrary file formats has no business in the kernel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The benefit of this choice is that no actions are required for
>>>>>> Linux distribution vendors to support the solution I'm proposing,
>>>>>> because they already provide signed digest lists (RPM headers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since the proof of loading a digest list is the digest of the
>>>>>> digest list (included in the list metadata), if RPM headers are
>>>>>> converted to a different format, remote attestation verifiers
>>>>>> cannot check the signature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the concern is security, it would be possible to prevent unsigned
>>>>>> RPM headers from being parsed, if the PGP key type is upstreamed
>>>>>> (adding in CC keyrings@vger.kernel.org).
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a security concern and also a layering violation, there should be no
>>>>> need to parse package file formats in the kernel.
>>>>
>>>> Parsing RPMs is not strictly necessary. Digests from the headers
>>>> can be extracted and written to a new file using the compact data
>>>> format (introduced with patch 7/12).
>>>>
>>>> At boot time, IMA measures this file before digests are uploaded to the
>>>> kernel. At this point, only files with unknown digest will be added
>>>> to the measurement list. At verification time, verifiers recreate the
>>>> measurement list by merging together the digests uploaded to the
>>>> kernel with the unknown digests. Then, they verify the obtained list.
>>>>
>>>> There are two ways to verify the digests: searching them in a reference
>>>> database, or checking a signature. With the 'ima-sig' measurement list
>>>> template, it is possible to verify signatures for each accessed file.
>>>> With this patch set, it is possible to verify the signature of
>>>> the file containing the digests uploaded to the kernel. If the data
>>>> format changes, the signature cannot be verified.
>>>>
>>>> To avoid this limitation, the parsers could be moved to a userspace
>>>> tool which then uploads the parsed digests to the kernel. IMA would
>>>> measure the original files. But, if the tool is compromised, it could
>>>> load digests not included in the parsed files. With the current solution
>>>> this problem does not arise because no changes can be done by userspace
>>>> applications to the uploaded data while digests are parsed by IMA.
>>>>
>>>> I could remove the RPM parser from the patch set for now.
>>>>
>>>> Is the remaining part of the patch set ok, and is the explanation of
>>>> what it does clear?
>>>
>>> From a trusted boot perspective, file measurements are added to the
>>> measurement list, before access to the file is given.  The measurement
>>> list contains ALL measurements, as defined by policy.  This patch set
>>> changes that meaning to be all measurements, as defined by policy,
>>> with the exception of those in a white list.
>>
>> The digest list is also measured, so the measurement list is complete.
>> Verifiers have to check the digest of digest lists. Otherwise, they
>> would get an unknown digest and conclude that the system being verified
>> has been compromised.
>
> Your proposal is basically a pre-approved "batched" measurement, of a
> set of known good measurements, without the corresponding list of
> measurements that this "batched" measurement represents.  Right?

Yes, correct.


> This pre-approved "batched" measurement represents not what has been
> accessed/executed on the system, but what potentially could be
> accessed/executed.  That's a major difference.
>
>> If you prefer, I could add a new policy rule option to avoid file
>> measurements if the digest is in the digest list.
>
> Huh?  Patch "ima: don't report measurements if digests are included in
> the loaded lists" is already doing this.

Since the content of the measurement list depends on the policy,
adding a new option would give a better understanding of what the
measurement list represents. But, I agree that this is redundant.


>>> Changing the fundamental meaning of the measurement list is not
>>> acceptable.  You could define a new securityfs file to differentiate
>>> between the full measurement list and this abbreviated one.  But
>>
>> There cannot be two measurement lists at the same time. Providing the
>> full measurement list (containing the digest of files being accessed)
>> implies that its integrity must be protected with PCR extends, making
>> the optimization done by this patch set useless.
>
> True, so you would be able to configure the system with one or the
> other type of list, not both.  At least there would be a clear
> understanding of what that list represents.
>
>>
>>> before making this sort of change, I would prefer to address the
>>> underlying problem - TPM peformance.
>>
>> Even if the TPM driver performance improves significantly (17 seconds
>> for 1000 extends), the boot time delay would be still noticeable
>> (8.5 seconds for normal boot + 24 seconds for 1400 PCR extends).
>
> Agreed, there is still room for more TPM improvements.  Just Nayna's
> one patch, without any other changes, brought the timing down from 53s
> for a 1000 extends to just 11s.  (The initial patch was Nack'ed, but
> we're working with the tpmdd and the TCG's device driver work group
> (DDWG).)
>
>> In my opinion, this patch set is useful without considering the
>> performance improvement: reduced size of measurement lists and
>> verification of digest list signatures, instead of file signatures,
>> where signatures are already provided by Linux distributions.
>
> Right, there's always a trade off.  My suggestion, assuming we go with
> this approach, would be to make that trade off clear by using
> different lists.

You mean to add a new kernel command line option to create new
securityfs files instead of the existing ones
(ascii_runtime_measurements, binary_runtime_measurements)? I would
prefer a solution that does not change the interfaces, otherwise
remote attestation agents have to be modified. They can handle
the new list type, as the data format didn't change.

Thanks

Roberto


>>> There are a couple of things that could be done to improve the TPM
>>> driver performance, itself.  Once all of these options have been
>>> pursued, we could then consider batching the measurements to the TPM,
>>> meaning that the measurement list would still contain all the file
>>> measurements, but instead of extending the TPM for each measurement, a
>>> batched hash - a hash of a group of file measurements - would be
>>> extended into the TPM.
>>
>> Probably, I didn't explain clearly that this patch set does not decrease
>> the security of IMA.
>>
>> Extending the PCR for a group of file measurements means that the system
>> can be compromised between two PCR extends without detection because
>> a malicious binary could alter IMA before the next extend.
>
> Currently, a measurement is added to the measurement list and then is
> used to extend the TPM, before returning to the caller.
>
> A performance improvement would still first add the measurement to the
> measurement list, but would then queue and wait for the measurement to
> extend the TPM, before returning to the caller.  In a multi threaded
> environment, the queued measurements could be "batched" - a hash of a
> set of hashes - to extend the TPM.
>
> The delay would be at most two times it takes to extend the TPM - one
> to complete an existing current "batched" extend and another new
> "batched" extend.
>
> The difficulty with this approach is identifying which measurements
> are included in which "batched" measurement.  This approach provides
> the same guarantees as previously.
>
> Before making the TPM performance problem an IMA issue and "fixing" it
> in IMA, I would prefer that the TPM performance be addressed directly.
>
> Mimi
>
>>
>> This patch set extends the PCR with the digest of digest lists, before
>> files are accessed. No actions happen before either the digest lists
>> have been measured or the file measurement is added to the measurement
>> list, if the file digest is not included in the digest list.
>
>

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