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From:   Ken Moffat <zarniwhoop73@googlemail.com>
Date:   Tue, 8 May 2018 22:00:49 +0100
Message-ID: <CANVEwpawkz0FHii-QOKLj+=WELf06F+mWPqs5L8DA_n4fetLGg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches
To:     Sasha Levin <Alexander.Levin@microsoft.com>
Cc:     "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
        Tony Lindgren <tony@atomide.com>,
        Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>, "w@1wt.eu" <w@1wt.eu>,
        "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" 
        <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
        "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
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On 8 May 2018 at 21:29, Sasha Levin <Alexander.Levin@microsoft.com> wrote:

>
> This is interesting. We have a group of power users who are testing out
> -rc releases, who are usually happy to test out a fast moving target and
> provide helpful reports back. We also have a group who run a -stable
> kernel (-stable build/distro/android/etc) who want to avoid having to
> report bugs to us.
>
> What we don't have is a group of people who use Linus's actual releases
> (not the -rc stuff, but the actual point releases). Power users will
> move on to the next kernel, and -stable folks won't touch that release
> until there's a corresponding -stable.

I resent that assumption :)

As a 'prosumer' in this context, I try to test an early -rc (usually
not until -rc2, sometimes not until later, depending on what I see on
this list), and then intermittently I spread the testing to more of my
desktop machines using later -rc versions. Once linus releases .0 I
hope to move my current systems to that in the next few days. But as
always, other things (sometimes real life, sometimes just new changes
in userspace) intervene.

After that, I will pick up Greg's latest if I build a new system
before the next kernel release, or if I become aware of something
critical (for my usage) in it.  And then probably 4 or 5 weeks after
linus's release I will start the next cycle of testing -rc verisons.

So no, I rarely test Greg's current stable version, but there _is_ a
period of some weeks where I run .0 kernels.

=C4=B8en


>
> Even rawhide, like Josh mentioned, will just fill back with the merge
> window commits after the release of an older kernel.
>
> So the problem I'm seeing is that since a merge window is open only once
> every 2-3 months people will sometimes try to push poorly tested code
> just to make that merge window. Additionally, as later -rc releases
> start showing up people will again merge poorly tested fixes just to
> make it in time for that release.
>
> For both cases, people will push poorly tested code in the kernel just
> because they want to make it in time for a kernel release that no one
> will actually use.
>
> What if, instead, Linus doesn't actually ever release a point release?
> We can make the merge window open more often, and since there's no
> actual release, people won't rush to push fixes in later -rc cycles.
>
> We take away the incentive to push poorly tested code. Maintainers still
> free to commit anything they'd like, but there's no reason to commit
> code they're not confident of just to make it to a random release no one
> will use.
>
> Merge window will happen more often, so there's no real reason to rush
> things in a particular window, and since -stable releases every week
> there's no rush to push a fix in since the next release is just a week
> away.