Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:50:12 +0200
From: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@suse.de>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn?= Engel <joern@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>, Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
       Pascal Schmidt <der.eremit@email.de>,
       Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: bandwidth for bkbits.net (good news)
Message-ID: <20030831155012.GW24409@dualathlon.random>
References: <20030830230701.GA25845@work.bitmover.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308310256420.16308-100000@neptune.local> <20030831013928.GN24409@dualathlon.random> <20030831025659.GA18767@work.bitmover.com> <1062335711.31351.44.camel@dhcp23.swansea.linux.org.uk> <20030831144505.GS24409@dualathlon.random> <1062343891.10323.12.camel@dhcp23.swansea.linux.org.uk> <20030831154301.GD30196@wohnheim.fh-wedel.de>
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On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 05:43:01PM +0200, J?rn Engel wrote:
> On Sun, 31 August 2003 16:31:32 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > On Sul, 2003-08-31 at 15:45, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> > > On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 02:15:12PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > > On Sul, 2003-08-31 at 03:56, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > > > I'm pretty convinced we can't solve the problem at our end.  Maybe we can
> > > > 
> > > > For bursts of traffic you can't.
> > > 
> > > what's the difference of rejecting packets in software, or because the
> > > link can't handle them? Assume the guaranteed bandwidth is much lower
> > 
> > It doesn't work when you dont control incoming. As a simple extreme
> > example if I pingflood you from a fast site then no amount of shaping
> > your end of the link will help, it has to be shaped at the ISP end.
> 
> If someone wants to DOS you, he can.  Full stop.

yes, that's unfixable at Larry's end, and normaly it's unfixable for the
ISP too.

> iirc, Larry was worried about well behaved traffic still doing bad
> things to his connection.

I also understood the problem were the legimate clones/checkouts
happening in established state with a single tcp connection generating a
burst of traffic.

If this is not the case and Larry is under attack when the voip doesn't
work, of course nothing can help him, most probably not even his ISP,
but I assumed this wasn't the case.

Andrea
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