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Date:   Wed, 30 May 2018 14:49:12 -0700
From:   "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:     Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
        linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
        andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com,
        Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
        Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
        Nick Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
        David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
        Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
        Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
        Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
        Roman Pen <roman.penyaev@profitbricks.com>
Subject: Re: LKMM litmus test for Roman Penyaev's rcu-rr
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On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 04:28:56PM -0400, Alan Stern wrote:
> On Wed, 30 May 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> 
> > > > My current guess is that we need to change the memory-model tool.  If
> > > > that is the case, here are some possible resolutions:
> > > > 
> > > > 1.	Make herd's C-language control dependencies work the same as its
> > > > 	assembly language, so that they extend beyond the end of the
> > > > 	"if" statement.  I believe that this would make Roman's case
> > > > 	work, but it could claim that other situations are safe that
> > > > 	are actually problematic due to compiler optimizations.
> > > > 
> > > > 	The fact that the model currently handles only READ_ONCE()
> > > > 	and WRITE_ONCE() and not unmarked reads and writes make this
> > > > 	option more attractive than it otherwise be, compilers not
> > > > 	being allowed to reorder volatile accesses, but we are likely
> > > > 	to introduce unmarked accesses sometime in the future.
> > > 
> > > Preserving the order of volatile accesses isn't sufficient.  The
> > > compiler is still allowed to translate
> > > 
> > > 	r1 = READ_ONCE(x);
> > > 	if (r1) {
> > > 		...
> > > 	}
> > > 	WRITE_ONCE(y, r2);
> > > 
> > > into something resembling
> > > 
> > > 	r1 = READ_ONCE(x);
> > > 	WRITE_ONCE(y, r2);
> > > 	if (r1) {
> > > 		...
> > > 	}
> > > 
> > > (provided the "..." part doesn't contain any volatile accesses,
> > > barriers, or anything affecting r2), which would destroy any run-time
> > > control dependency.  The CPU could then execute the write before the
> > > read.
> > 
> > True, but almost all current litmus tests do have at least one volatile
> > access in their "if" statements.  I am guessing that this has the same
> > memory-model tooling issues as #2 below, but I am as usual happy to be
> > proven wrong.  ;-)
> 
> It shouldn't be all that bad.  The dependencies are generated by herd,
> meaning that the code would have to be changed to make control
> dependencies extend beyond the ends of "if" statements.  I don't think
> the necessary changes would be tremendously big, especially since the
> LISA front end already behaves this way.

That was my thought.

> > > > 2.	Like #1 above, but only if something in one of the "if"'s
> > > > 	branches would prevent the compiler from reordering
> > > > 	(smp_mb(), synchronize_rcu(), value-returning non-relaxed
> > > > 	RMW atomic, ...).  Easy for me to say, but I am guessing
> > > > 	that much violence would be needed to the tooling to make
> > > > 	this work.  ;-)
> > > 
> > > This would be my preference.  But I'm afraid it isn't practical at the 
> > > moment.
> > 
> > I bet that some combination of scripting and smallish modifications to
> > tooling could make it happen in reasonably short term.  Might be more
> > difficult to make something more future-proof, though, agreed.
> 
> I have no idea what sort of scripting/smallish modifications could do 
> the job.  You could ask Luc, if you're not afraid of giving him an 
> aneurysm.  :-)

Two "if" keywords, one that carries control dependencies past the end
of the "if" (assembly-language style) and another that does not.  The
script then rewrites the "if" statements to one style or the other
depending on the contents of the "then" and "else" clauses.

> > > > If I understand Alan correctly, there is not an obvious way to make
> > > > this change within the confines of the memory model's .bell and .cat
> > > > files.
> > > 
> > > No way at all.  It would require significant changes to herd's internal 
> > > workings and its external interface -- my original point.
> > 
> > I was afraid of that.  ;-)
> > 
> > Though truth be told, I was expecting an issue like this to crop up
> > sooner rather than later, so I was actually getting a bit nervous
> > about the fact that it had not yet shown itself...
> 
> The fact is, herd was never meant to act like a compiler.  Some 
> disagreements are inevitable.

Agreed, the bit about identical stores at the beginnings of "then"
and "else" is one example.  But we should fix the ones that are more
straightforward.

						Thanx, Paul