Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264629AbTIDDzF (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:55:05 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264640AbTIDDzF (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:55:05 -0400 Received: from x35.xmailserver.org ([208.129.208.51]:37544 "EHLO x35.xmailserver.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264629AbTIDDzA (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:55:00 -0400 X-AuthUser: davidel@xmailserver.org Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:47:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Davide Libenzi X-X-Sender: davide@bigblue.dev.mdolabs.com To: Larry McVoy cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: Scaling noise In-Reply-To: <20030904023446.GG5227@work.bitmover.com> Message-ID: References: <20030903173213.GC5769@work.bitmover.com> <89360000.1062613076@flay> <20030904003633.GA5227@work.bitmover.com> <6130000.1062642088@[10.10.2.4]> <20030904023446.GG5227@work.bitmover.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1898 Lines: 36 On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Larry McVoy wrote: > Maybe because history has shown over and over again that your pet theory > doesn't work. Mine might be wrong but it hasn't been proven wrong. Yours > has. Multiple times. Ok, who will be using this Larry ? Seriously. You tought us to be market and business driven, so please tell us why this should be done. Will business that are already using Beowulf style clusters migrate to SSI ? Why should they ? They already scale well because they're running apps that scale well on that type of cluster, and Beowulf style clusters are cheap and faster for apps that do not share. Will business that are using application servers like Java, .NET or whatever migrate to the super SSI ? Nahh, why should they. Their apps server will be probably running thousands of cluster-unaware threads (and sharing a shit-load of memory) that will make SSI to look pretty ugly compared to a standard SMP/NUMA. Ok, they will be cheaper if implemented with cheaper 1..4 way SMPs. But at the very end, to get maximum performance from SSI you must have apps with a little of awareness of the system they're running on. So you must force businesses to either migrate their apps (cost of HW wayyy cheaper than cost of developers) or to suffer from major performance problems. So my question to you splits in two parts. Why companies selling HW should go with this solution (cheaper for the customer) ? And more, why should business buy into it, with the plan of having to rewrite their server infrastructure to take full advantage of the new architecture ? Maybe, at the very end, their is a reason why nobody is doing it. - Davide - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/