Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:54:11 +0200
From: Jens Axboe <axboe@suse.de>
To: Joerg Schilling <schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Kernel includefile bug not fixed after a year :-(
Message-ID: <20030930115411.GL2908@suse.de>
References: <200309301144.h8UBiUUF004315@burner.fokus.fraunhofer.de>
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On Tue, Sep 30 2003, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >From axboe@suse.de  Tue Sep 30 13:05:18 2003
> 
> >On Tue, Sep 30 2003, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> >> A year after I did report this inconsistency, it is still not fixed
> >> 
> >> If include/scsi/scsi.h is included without __KERNEL__ #defined, then this
> >> error message apears.
> >> 
> >> /usr/src/linux/include/scsi/scsi.h:172: parse error before "u8"
> >> /usr/src/linux/include/scsi/scsi.h:172: warning: no semicolon at end of struct 
> >> or union
> >> /usr/src/linux/include/scsi/scsi.h:173: warning: data definition has no type or 
> >> storage class
> >> 
> >> Is there no interest in user applications for kernel features or is there just
> >> no kernel maintainer left over who makes the needed work?
> 
> >/usr/include/scsi/scsi.h looks fine on my system, probably also on
> >yours. You should not include kernel headers in your user space program.
> 
> Looks like you did not understand the background :-(

I think I do.

> In order to use kernel interfaces you _need_ to include kernel include
> files.

False. You need to include the glibc kernel headers.

> This is in particular true as long as we are talking about
> beta/testing kernels.
> 
> 
> Background: on homogeneous platforms like e.g. Solaris or FreeBSD
> which are maintained and distributed as whole, an _enduser_ should
> include files from /usr/include only. 
> 
> 	This is not even true for people who do Solaris or FreeBSD
> 	kernel development and like to test new features with user level
> 	programs.  It is definitely not true for compilations against
> 	Linux kernel interfaces.
> 
> Linux is not a homogeneous system. There is a separately developed
> kernel and a separate base user level system. People often install a
> newer kernel and need to recompile software because the kernel/user
> interfaces are not stable between different Linux releases.

That's a pretty bold claim, when did the kernel/user interface break? A
lot of care is usually taken to ensure that this does not happen.

This subject has been debated to death lots of times before, I'm sure
the archives are more detailed and enlightening that I am.

-- 
Jens Axboe

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