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[209.132.180.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id j8-v6si12972636plk.196.2018.09.11.06.54.06; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 06:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.132.180.67; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=redhat.com Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727752AbeIKSv6 (ORCPT + 99 others); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:51:58 -0400 Received: from mx3-rdu2.redhat.com ([66.187.233.73]:50666 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727384AbeIKSv6 (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 14:51:58 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 159C24075166; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:52:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from llong.remote.csb (ovpn-123-172.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.123.172]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097F82156889; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:52:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Plumbers 2018 - Performance and Scalability Microconference To: Daniel Jordan , John Hubbard , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "linux-mm@kvack.org" , Aaron Lu , alex.kogan@oracle.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, boqun.feng@gmail.com, brouer@redhat.com, dave.dice@oracle.com, Dhaval Giani , ktkhai@virtuozzo.com, ldufour@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Pavel.Tatashin@microsoft.com, paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com, shady.issa@oracle.com, tariqt@mellanox.com, tglx@linutronix.de, tim.c.chen@intel.com, vbabka@suse.cz, yang.shi@linux.alibaba.com, shy828301@gmail.com, Huang Ying , subhra.mazumdar@oracle.com, Steven Sistare , jwadams@google.com, ashwinch@google.com, sqazi@google.com, Shakeel Butt , walken@google.com, rientjes@google.com, junaids@google.com, Neha Agarwal References: <1dc80ff6-f53f-ae89-be29-3408bf7d69cc@oracle.com> <35c2c79f-efbe-f6b2-43a6-52da82145638@nvidia.com> <55b44432-ade5-f090-bfe7-ea20f3e87285@redhat.com> <20180910172011.GB3902@linux-r8p5> <78fa0507-4789-415b-5b9c-18e3fcefebab@nvidia.com> <3db2b742-9e09-a934-e4ef-c87465e6715a@oracle.com> From: Waiman Long Organization: Red Hat Message-ID: <82f06ae8-5a3f-283f-5ad3-e6ab2f42dbc6@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 09:52:25 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3db2b742-9e09-a934-e4ef-c87465e6715a@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.6 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.7]); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:52:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.7]); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:52:31 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'10.11.54.6' DOMAIN:'int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com' HELO:'smtp.corp.redhat.com' FROM:'longman@redhat.com' RCPT:'' Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 09/10/2018 08:29 PM, Daniel Jordan wrote: > On 9/10/18 1:34 PM, John Hubbard wrote: >> On 9/10/18 10:20 AM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote: >>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018, Waiman Long wrote: >>>> On 09/08/2018 12:13 AM, John Hubbard wrote: >> [...] >>>>> It's also interesting that there are two main huge page systems >>>>> (THP and Hugetlbfs), and I sometimes >>>>> wonder the obvious thing to wonder: are these sufficiently >>>>> different to warrant remaining separate, >>>>> long-term? Yes, I realize they're quite different in some ways, >>>>> but still, one wonders. :) >>>> >>>> One major difference between hugetlbfs and THP is that the former >>>> has to >>>> be explicitly managed by the applications that use it whereas the >>>> latter >>>> is done automatically without the applications being aware that THP is >>>> being used at all. Performance wise, THP may or may not increase >>>> application performance depending on the exact memory access pattern, >>>> though the chance is usually higher that an application will benefit >>>> than suffer from it. >>>> >>>> If an application know what it is doing, using hughtblfs can boost >>>> performance more than it can ever achieved by THP. Many large >>>> enterprise >>>> applications, like Oracle DB, are using hugetlbfs and explicitly >>>> disable >>>> THP. So unless THP can improve its performance to a level that is >>>> comparable to hugetlbfs, I won't see the later going away. >>> >>> Yep, there are a few non-trivial workloads out there that flat out >>> discourage >>> thp, ie: redis to avoid latency issues. >>> >> >> Yes, the need for guaranteed, available-now huge pages in some cases is >> understood. That's not the quite same as saying that there have to be >> two different >> subsystems, though. Nor does it even necessarily imply that the pool >> has to be >> reserved in the same way as hugetlbfs does it...exactly. >> >> So I'm wondering if THP behavior can be made to mimic hugetlbfs >> enough (perhaps >> another option, in addition to "always, never, madvise") that we >> could just use >> THP in all cases. But the "transparent" could become a sliding scale >> that could >> go all the way down to "opaque" (hugetlbfs behavior). > > Leaving the interface aside, the idea that we could deduplicate > redundant parts of the hugetlbfs and THP implementations, without > user-visible change, seems promising. That I think it is good idea if it can be done. Thanks, Longman