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Fri, 26 Oct 2018 10:32:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mailbox.org; h= content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date:date :message-id:from:from:references:subject:subject:received; s= mail20150812; t=1540542726; bh=kmD44+uu8i6HsyUu0jEA0Bw5yoyCOWWfH IS4yOlYBgI=; b=ALERENRFscVBNtSe1UucOnVdDmAa4zl3HVaCdWNAd2sNQp45P v7QJbKqJWMpf4xCUvvxcGpsQJz/qHEVJ82DjUE/mzgVJ5+93xRuEKZUfHHAoSpwZ i5WWu/hSeYOx0hoaVueP3nTi55le88sR5a19lEqQKne3E+uykpIDj2EKiyeisvXf WTuTvMh+pJEX02nkKjpYiQ+1DkTOXVHpU+6mhVsLSB2lNd7C/SDfc45c+SQqjwn7 Fyv0MQMKeabR+UJ/CzRL2xE1v+gxUYztXnj/vL19OPyZb8RbCLI0DJ82YUy+uM3i 746mBshvB+3lRO+wPnFZSQJhQu4L3ZfL+gTZg== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by spamfilter01.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter01.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.115]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id J17Jcni57AnU; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 10:32:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document To: NeilBrown , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Thomas Gleixner , Olof Johansson , Chris Mason , Mishi Choudhary References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> <2341648.lzjnUGKk1z@siriux> <877ei56579.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> From: Rainer Fiebig Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jrf@mailbox.org; 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micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mk6KZKkkzDnuNF6O7Lw1QQ6XNUiNVkUc0" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --mk6KZKkkzDnuNF6O7Lw1QQ6XNUiNVkUc0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="adwNx6T1iwfkUPnjNTpDEaR3eyN6EMFAv"; protected-headers="v1" From: Rainer Fiebig To: NeilBrown , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Thomas Gleixner , Olof Johansson , Chris Mason , Mishi Choudhary Message-ID: Subject: Re: Call to Action Re: [PATCH 0/7] Code of Conduct: Fix some wording, and add an interpretation document References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> <2341648.lzjnUGKk1z@siriux> <877ei56579.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> In-Reply-To: <877ei56579.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> --adwNx6T1iwfkUPnjNTpDEaR3eyN6EMFAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NeilBrown schrieb: > On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote: >=20 >> Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown: >>> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kern= el >>>> tree a few weeks ago. >>> >>> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly) >>> silent might be seen (publicly) as acquiescing, I hereby declare that= : >>> I reject, as illegitimate, this Code and the process by >>> which it is being "developed". >>> >>> It is clear from the surrounding discussions that this is well outsid= e our >>> core competencies. It will be flawed, it isn't what we need. >>> >>> I call on any other community members who reject this process to say = so, >>> not to remain silent. >>> #Iobject >>> >>> We don't need a "Code of Conduct" nearly as much as we need "Leadersh= ip >>> in conduct". Without the leadership, any code looks like a joke. >>> >> [...] >> =20 >>> I call on you, Greg: >>> - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct" >>> - to revert 8a104f8b5867c68 >> >> Yes but this seems increasingly unlikely now. However, there may be an= =20 >> alternative. >> >> Jugding by the release-message for 4.19, some people here are fans of = >> Monty Python's. No wonder - as those guys are famous for being unrelen= ting=20 >> supporters of Political Correctness. >> >> So one would be on the safe side if one just supplemented "Our Pledge"= =20 >> with this: >> >> "Everybody has the right to be offended." >> >> I think, John Cleese would also welcome this.[1] >> >> What do you think? >=20 > I do think that giving certain rights to the community is a good thing:= > - the right to tell anyone that their speech is hurtful > - the right to (patch) review by a third party. >=20 > I don't think the right to be offended really needs to be given. > Yes, I know it is a joke and I do like Monty Python. I just don't thin= k > it is particular helpful in this context. Maybe I missed something. Of course it's a joke and iirc it was indeed John Cleese who made it. But= he made it for a reason, out of concern. It has a serious core. The question is: what *is* helpful in this matter? Just saying "this is not helpful" isn't helpful either. It's a well-known= killer-phrase that has been used ad nauseam in this discussion. But an alternative is never given. And thus it's just an other way of saying "Eat it. And shut tf up!" Not even *constructive* criticism is helpful. AFAIK I'm the only one here= who came up with a *complete* alternative - ignored. Others provided patches = for certain sections - ignored. Data that indicate that this may be detriment= al to Linux - ignored. Almost anything that was provided by me or others - igno= red. What kind of community or attitude is this? This feels more like "The Wal= l" or North Korea than an Open-Source-project. And what beat everything was to misuse famously politically *in*correct M= onty Python to malign criticism of this Political-Correctness-monster. The "People's Front" - message will forever be a prominent exhibit in "Monty Python's Hall of Shame". And the author should be banned from laughing ab= out MP-sketches until he recants. Perhaps one should also report this inciden= t to the "Ministry of Silly CoCs". ;) > For myself, I relinquish my right to be offended. I just don't do it. > It doesn't seem to be worth the effort. I don't. John Cleese is a smart guy. And he has a point. OK, thanks for your reply! But I think it's time for me to move on. "Cut = your losses", as they say. Good luck and regards! Rainer Fiebig --adwNx6T1iwfkUPnjNTpDEaR3eyN6EMFAv-- --mk6KZKkkzDnuNF6O7Lw1QQ6XNUiNVkUc0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE6yx5PjBNuGB2qJXG8OH3JiWK+PUFAlvS0V0ACgkQ8OH3JiWK +PVFSBAApW00InjnyXN1MaU8ouqtamUmhz7OrwJHxa4HYzTJZvn6BpX6KY6NcfZ9 ygAXdOnvrp9mq6WYy9dydV0VomeIT86tfFK15amHyQuTTgaw3M646nyO0wPmKV9F 4txlF8nlLo+vpIC8vOx8GhpJ3+EFMMUDKBDByhQ83WtF6WpkdP0KXEwwieWPnFG4 8Q4UOxOVJZHD2SahWzvMmwLaBHQT2pNXcjM5VM6VqoHNAP9Tgn9c0eXkCctENiyN 9f8w223r6FhyNag4eXVF3Of8ja6aBqdr3HbKiKIcTV/PzHmA2QEMy7leddTw/O9/ epfQLfbeAOea9BDG7IXIWSUBlKMp0BTEygNqYf8GwuIHSMD2AHRWyXbIydpPNrbj w4aUYgb64wxMDL6ei3aaIhdr9C1+oT5ZwuimteL6C7EHbAwx5WPkJJ2HIGB8g7wd /pLAi1V1O6DPkkxtnbFJn49GDoS+fs8WnIOnlJmcucWTXgHHyAxEpHNL4r0vBfQD R+29Czy8W2hINC/jT5hIhuwFhsIexh1bAzVQLTD67XDFHYXe1MHEyAA25kU/gH9P wQOah4Vtvh1sKyDtPdHeE9eEKG1BaG2mCQJmgBUcyEOFvycLwnS5n3Q6D1WK73Sr rblas5W9uOBV+De0nVAUgiPOpXUCVBMpTpKfDknidFwB78rLpr4= =GsF/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mk6KZKkkzDnuNF6O7Lw1QQ6XNUiNVkUc0--