Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264401AbUAEEyp (ORCPT ); Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:54:45 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264488AbUAEEyo (ORCPT ); Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:54:44 -0500 Received: from fw.osdl.org ([65.172.181.6]:2988 "EHLO mail.osdl.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264401AbUAEExN (ORCPT ); Sun, 4 Jan 2004 23:53:13 -0500 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:52:56 -0800 (PST) From: Linus Torvalds To: viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk cc: Daniel Jacobowitz , Andries Brouwer , Rob Love , rob@landley.net, Pascal Schmidt , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Greg KH Subject: Re: udev and devfs - The final word In-Reply-To: <20040105043830.GE4176@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <20040104034934.A3669@pclin040.win.tue.nl> <20040104142111.A11279@pclin040.win.tue.nl> <20040104230104.A11439@pclin040.win.tue.nl> <20040105030737.GA29964@nevyn.them.org> <20040105035037.GD4176@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <20040105043830.GE4176@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3312 Lines: 75 On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk wrote: > > If nothing else, things like SATA will end up meaning that the device you > > were used to seeign as /dev/hdc will suddenly show up as /dev/scd0 > > instead. Just because you changed the cabling while you upgraded to a > > newer version of your CD-ROM drive. > > If I open the damn box, I sure as hell can be bothered to edit stuff in > /etc... Actually, not necessarily. The thing is, _the_ most common reason I have for opening the box is that the effing thing started having problems. At which point I want to just remove the disk, move it to another box, and boot up the other box. And THAT is exactly the kind of situation where I sure as hell don't want to care exactly where the disk was. I can't "prepare" for it by editing files in /etc, since I don't know that the CPU fan or whatever is going to die on me. And this is _exactly_ why we should try to get away from device numbering having any meaning. Because if we do this right, something like the CPU fan dying, and me moving a disk to a new machine that has SATA (with the disk having both SATA and PATA connectors), I shouldn't need to even _think_ about it. That's where "mount by label" does part of the job. But if the system is _always_ set up to do things like NFS exports according to some separate UUID, that too would "just work". There's a lot to be said for "just work". Even if sometimes it takes some pain when you break old (and broken) assumptions. > > because "pine" still doesn't get UTF-8 right, and nobody is apparently > > ever going to fix it. Oh, well. But at least I know I'm doing something > > _wrong_, which in itself is a good thing.). > > Heh. Took you long enough - "using pine" should've been a dead giveaway > from the very beginning ;-) Those are them fighting words. But since you brought it up: do you actually have anything else that can open a remote IMAP file with a few thousand messages without taking ages for it, and that you don't have to mouse around with? I'd like a graphical interface for configuring stuff etc, but I sure as hell don't want to find some f*ing icon to save a few messages that I selected in-order to my "doit" queue or go to the next one, or pipe the thing to a shell-script, or any number of things that are my actual _job_. And the "no mousing" means that I don't want to have some popup window that asks me what file I want to save into or similar crap. I can type fast enough if I stay on the keyboard and can focus on one part of the screen, but if I have to switch my focus around, I'm a goner. On a related matter, I'm probably a retard, but I've tried alternatives to "trn" too, and there really aren't any. None of the graphical news readers can show me one full page of threads, select the 3-4 threads from _that_ one page that I want (from the keyboard), and then kill _that_ one page. Not the whole newsgroup: only the part that shows in the window at that time. In "trn", the magic command is capital-D, for "discard". Linus - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/