Received: by 2002:ad5:474a:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id i10csp3553085imu; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d4Z/FcRtWeLKH+dHBm0RAU3d3sPRuAIJlrMdt29YOeD2tZkmS9mGDgtIk1p5MQZz9Y5LEi X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:4165:: with SMTP id e92-v6mr18372637pld.209.1541987595172; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1541987595; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=0gE5TDAgpvin6X8n+hl+MkfJ2TK8Dg3pOWv5J3r1P8+peQITdYLFGnfX0qp6asjP7Y IhwITpE+z26bPJncZL+i1pb8TlXasRPrWHMIYxxMq46u6t0+rEpgp1LDw7jASQVOlFho n3sojrXecOoD2AuxSnpwkB+BGMAQBu1x6P715gZhl67+ANrnX2EdwUhj6X5K43tTtF03 pcrdr4uMXE9Tk0qqvI4Q4Nx5w4bUuWK8XZvHAR0nKtR+tRuEiTi0fAwJDRtTiPhanv82 ZHmnxgEVwzND3kJNN5hoGr8kkSxLK4ZaEPzAmKH6unjCuUA5ifFpGeLdD6PMZFDxo3W9 6PCg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:sender:content-transfer-encoding :content-language:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:organization:from:references:cc:to:subject; bh=qo6tlNHYKJHNpPisTI3QySbB+YF1vzOG0B+Uuuy+ktI=; b=Z0/fpnPvyqo6n5htbHNPJonOvMcR/0L8x+usi5ZEGMPhGNjJ/OdMWAo5QDIMuv69th kYddgF5/YqzAk0pI+MQTMzsJemcEDcr5kigx2PLjdU6/zN29sHvUaoieb4l/0RJoT2xU JxGIUlAZ+8RJvtBWtGUw9XeNgvncCDQdrbcEcOgOcZk73OBSdd+N56/bjmc/QkhGi7BT wc1sJPbFvrX5sdugHtb50uUVtEmjnubej6kS+SM0fN5SS7aW+mvpyHRTDR82n9ed78Kc akzdpEd8Nw+uVvhpJkQLFJxcPVwu4HaCFrQRqc78V2ZD3MN8bgF46INmu6b3WlESLlO+ dnpA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [209.132.180.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19-v6si19486462pfb.113.2018.11.11.17.53.00; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.132.180.67; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1730047AbeKLLnW (ORCPT + 99 others); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:22 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38568 "EHLO zimbra.cs.ucla.edu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1729780AbeKLLnW (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:22 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 459 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:21 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E610C160093; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UFukRyYj5VgG; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ADE160098; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DqQtkmm0HEOI; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-23-242-74-103.socal.res.rr.com [23.242.74.103]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CAA0B160093; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library? To: Daniel Colascione , Florian Weimer Cc: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" , linux-kernel , Joel Fernandes , Linux API , Willy Tarreau , Vlastimil Babka , Carlos O'Donell , "libc-alpha@sourceware.org" References: <877ehjx447.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <11149279-14f7-68b4-dc5e-d90924d40d0c@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:52 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Daniel Colascione wrote: > This resistance to exposing the capabilities of > the system as they are, even in flawed and warty form, is what I meant > by "misplaced idealism" in my previous message. With my application-developer hat on I prefer some resistance to flaws and warts, as the resistance gives me a better feel for which functions are problematic and which can be used more reliably. If glibc is missing Linux syscall functionality that I really need then I can use syscall (with the usual caveats) and I've done that on occasion (and have regretted it later too :-). It is helpful for glibc to prefer mild curation to slavishly copying an API that can be a bit helter-skelter at times.