Received: by 2002:ad5:474a:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id i10csp3229426imu; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:36:39 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XHuiQ8rOIIK1SnVDH2/5kVLyyCfzLgd1gji1Y38v3vMMdpPpT1hiePdv/y6TqW72OFbAuL X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:280b:: with SMTP id e11mr19161898plb.269.1543048598997; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:36:38 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543048598; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=dw+NqhNYKHYErDsFUSkaAcnKUd2XiJtgAn+fhEnCL2VpHCo7EDT55HKwOhc48R/qH1 LNlHKjokoeJrG/hicZvflCc5UJ7VhpHam6bBEb89O5+T77x9lAasjIbNf3O/vzIgcGk/ 7yj2UaoYsk6+VlB+rJElUFIdAPyIcmOUUaFqrETc+dMLjhvkbWd3Ckbsj0H8OaCdZn7f 7zGoDfsQC2gsYsb49BH2n3v48+X7Uqn9Z3I6cRwLSjn58Ku0/37beyztU3pAuNruE9IX s414/HZui9cDUYnbOYdeHHVEtw95jsUAPel1Y9tl+1Ze01hHTMpuiXUrpLuaZVT/wA8N 3lZg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:sender:content-language :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject; bh=I32QjjgrMkm7G+BJojkR9Xwo2S51m2iamRGZAPHG9do=; b=Z2Qr5xZWehLXPhk4czhHnTRgCdG2UWYeswtWqX1ZyCiQ7Nmzgl03PrYDt0dafqj9tC Gs/H2PsHGQLHfl1f+GVlUEIvEasacYt9FWWH0b0EETfxoI4sTYNZTUFCga47NyWY5Jvy Zvh1EtmWYfldYawF1wnFGhnm2P80zvrGALVLAchrxNkUi2+h1HqmoZG67mHSW9QVmc3s YejhkSo5I9a3mbGTyfoBp2TDReBgt5mftTN/JwyiisPkIGU6hqoHBO0mrRuL1GMdMzAu GVTBb8383/A3WG6JeBrYF7RXta+fxdjnMa61Cv/75eu4ovcLt1xRdtRSchMfabrTr4O0 Z3YA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [209.132.180.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 129-v6si60541955pfy.164.2018.11.24.00.36.24; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.132.180.67; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2436550AbeKXBA5 (ORCPT + 99 others); Fri, 23 Nov 2018 20:00:57 -0500 Received: from hawking.davidnewall.com ([203.20.69.83]:46199 "EHLO hawking.rebel.net.au" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S2391062AbeKXBA5 (ORCPT ); Fri, 23 Nov 2018 20:00:57 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 325 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2018 20:00:56 EST Received: from [172.30.0.109] (124-169-190-170.dyn.iinet.net.au [::ffff:124.169.190.170]) (AUTH: PLAIN davidn, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by hawking.rebel.net.au with ESMTPSA; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:41:06 +1030 id 0000000000064BC2.5BF80A7C.00004D42 Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library? To: Florian Weimer , Daniel Colascione Cc: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" , linux-kernel , Joel Fernandes , Linux API , Willy Tarreau , Vlastimil Babka , Carlos O'Donell , "libc-alpha@sourceware.org" References: <877ehjx447.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <875zx2vhpd.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <87efbbvrx9.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> From: David Newall Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 00:41:05 +1030 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87efbbvrx9.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-AU Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 24/11/18 12:04 am, Florian Weimer wrote: > But socketcall does not exist on all architectures. Neither does > getpid, it's called getxpid on some architectures. > ... > I think it would be a poor approach to expose application developers to > these portability issues. We need to abstract over these differences at > a certain layer, and applications are too late. Interesting.  I think the opposite.  I think exposing the OS's interfaces is exactly what a c-library should do.  It might also provide alternative interfaces that work consistently across different platforms, but in addition to, not instead of the OS interface.