Received: by 2002:ad5:474a:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id i10csp3246853imu; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 01:01:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cONMIa7xEwC8gOLtIXKYIt7K/aPaiWwCaMHc/LYMAQsM2Hl2mV0FIhLxpP5E4nXVdM9l5g X-Received: by 2002:a62:2606:: with SMTP id m6mr18961749pfm.133.1543050061389; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 01:01:01 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543050061; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=H8zC8OweN4TaXDBKFTAogpGPs75L+lLU9A+t24uA0+h9F6ES7uDrrJ9EFf2ijbqLNf Xe2cUOBs6wqFhHILCBVaTFtuv1vcUBsOE/EMA1RE4uMlNROlfHpJOYAPQvYSaGiNOhyt pIEtC5A3+z1iZcSK1PxeDQl0GBPuPpkczoLvKjfELJLBv9/6rExJUSefNL+65pL2OwIS yDfnTBdDuJCL7TCgj1xdC2lbNUJO412pDoATrII67QOyXYwq5C5S0JUhD4aFbIN7mE9Z SjgekTHazb8zCvd1dqeKwlio7A8JUDEAtFyhTLxfOHWIzoqTKGjsALQ8gyFdRckPtxe3 jb+A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-id:precedence:sender:content-language :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject; bh=B4fyzYXsazA2kUo57fQlb2PAYKlcNYunaOZs4RuRUJI=; b=Q8QHv1jNZGOCAqpyqwpkNyC8hVHVG+CUATRTwU285xCKt1vCH4P8F02J5WgWxpAndR jIg7tVOh/0THtuh3nQHZ+7TInPtukyOtH4M8/ksF4mFQLVagU+znKeD3cVihbyXphgiU Vw6EBFHSUEbi9a9sDqs9mMBuO9L/RBYJlHOLR5NnaIzwis1q7qA85PkkoazcuaG25B0H 7j38wHgPRblGRN9ZkuQKjFBtMZR3Ki+vdQk7RGmOe1cFJlQWwfanr4XGx2lKZNQ+/sSX oVEuLm5jeX3GBOxdZT39WwfgnRUXIMgjRo8E9M8NFAS44G048TL5yRFrVVpuZh5YBafn t3ow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Return-Path: Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org. [209.132.180.67]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id p14si24481458pgf.52.2018.11.24.01.00.46; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 01:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.132.180.67; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org designates 209.132.180.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1730876AbeKXO2e (ORCPT + 99 others); Sat, 24 Nov 2018 09:28:34 -0500 Received: from hawking.davidnewall.com ([203.20.69.83]:46078 "EHLO hawking.rebel.net.au" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728450AbeKXO2e (ORCPT ); Sat, 24 Nov 2018 09:28:34 -0500 Received: from [172.30.0.109] (124-169-190-170.dyn.iinet.net.au [::ffff:124.169.190.170]) (AUTH: PLAIN davidn, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,AES128-SHA) by hawking.rebel.net.au with ESMTPSA; Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:11:40 +1030 id 0000000000064BC2.5BF8C875.00006B31 Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library? To: Szabolcs Nagy , Florian Weimer , Daniel Colascione Cc: nd , "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" , linux-kernel , Joel Fernandes , Linux API , Willy Tarreau , Vlastimil Babka , Carlos O'Donell , "libc-alpha@sourceware.org" References: <877ehjx447.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <875zx2vhpd.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <87efbbvrx9.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> From: David Newall Message-ID: <98843299-f064-8582-76d8-46217de2626f@davidnewall.com> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:11:38 +1030 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-AU Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 24/11/18 1:53 am, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: > On 23/11/18 14:11, David Newall wrote: >> On 24/11/18 12:04 am, Florian Weimer wrote: >>> But socketcall does not exist on all architectures.  Neither does >>> getpid, it's called getxpid on some architectures. >>> ... >>> I think it would be a poor approach to expose application developers to >>> these portability issues.  We need to abstract over these differences at >>> a certain layer, and applications are too late. >> Interesting.  I think the opposite.  I think exposing the OS's interfaces is exactly what a c-library should do.  It might also provide >> alternative interfaces that work consistently across different platforms, but in addition to, not instead of the OS interface. > you don't understand the point of the c language if you think so. I understand the point of C, thank you very much, and we're talking about the C library, not the language.  I don't understand the point of your rudeness.