Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264902AbUD3T2h (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:28:37 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S265232AbUD3T2g (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:28:36 -0400 Received: from mail2.webmessenger.it ([193.70.193.55]:7568 "EHLO mail1a.webmessenger.it") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264902AbUD3T2L (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:28:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4092A88D.70007@copeca.dsnet.it> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:27:09 +0200 From: Giuliano Colla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; it-IT; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: it, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl-Daniel Hailfinger CC: Linus Torvalds , hsflinux@lists.mbsi.ca, Rusty Russell , Andrew Morton , Linux Kernel Mailing List Subject: Re: [hsflinux] [PATCH] Blacklist binary-only modules lying about their license References: <408DC0E0.7090500@gmx.net> <40914C35.1030802@copeca.dsnet.it> <409256A4.5080607@copeca.dsnet.it> <409276D6.9070500@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <409276D6.9070500@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 4646 Lines: 140 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger ha scritto: >Giuliano Colla wrote: > > >>Linus Torvalds ha scritto: >> >> >> >>>On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Giuliano Colla wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Let's try not to be ridiculous, please. >>>> >>>> >>>It's not abotu being ridiculous. It's about honoring peoples copyrights. >>> >>> >>On that ground you're correct. >>[...] >>But please do consider a different perspective. >> >>I'm an end user. >>I download a damn Linuxant driver because the manufacturer of the laptop >>I own has seen fit to use a Conexant chipset. >>In order to do that I must: >>a) Pay a (small) sum. >>b) Accept a Microsoft-like license agreement. >>If at that point I haven't realized that I'm not getting a fully GPL'd >>software I'm really terminally stupid as you kindly suggest. >> >> > >If you look at the price of a cardbus real modem on ebay, you might be >surprised that these things are really cheap. Sometimes buying software to >support the winmodems is actually more expensive than buying a real modem. > > > > You're right, but in a laptop using the integrated modem is more practical, with less stuff to carry, and less power involved. Provided of course I do it at my own risk, and don't try to rebutt the troubles I may get into to kernel people, which has more useful things to do, than following my personal whims. BTW on my previous laptop I had a Lucent winmodem, whose driver doesn't fake the GPL license, but which was definitely inferior to the Linuxant driver, except for the hardware probing stupid implementation. I'm looking forward for a time when being "Designed for Linux" will be more rewarding for a manufacturer than being "Designed for Windows" but till then I must get along with what is available. >>However, if I'm not terminally stupid, I will never think of addressing >>to kernel people in order to fix problems arising from or after loading >>the driver, and associated utilities, even if lsmod doesn't show >>"tainted" modules. Kernel people shouldn't even consider supporting the >>resulting mess. >> >> > >How would you know NOT to complain to linux-kernel if there is no sign you >shouldn't? > > > > There's no *run-time* sign. But I was made aware of that when I downloaded it from a different source, and I had to agree to a non GPL license. It didn't originate from kernel group and I'm using it at my own risk. >>That said, I'd like to explain what made me react to the announcement >>posted. >> >>Linuxant have figured a Microsoft-like brute force hardware detection >>mechanism: they attempt to load *all* drivers, and only the one which >>[...] >>But I didn't appreciate that the reaction to that mess has been also on >>Microsoft style. >>The reaction has been: >> >>a) a workaround of the workaround (if you put a \0, I'll detect the >>Linuxant string) >> >> > >Was there anything else that could have been done for the existing fake >GPL modules? > > > > Maybe I fail to grasp the full picture, but I'd just have ignored it. Please remember that they "fake" GPL only at run-time, not when you get them. >>b) a lie (the /GPL directory is empty). >> >> > >I have this FUCKING Linuxant .rpm with an empty GPL directory right on my >hard disk. And this .rpm is signed by Linuxant. So either Linuxant has >been hacked (someone stole the key, signed a bogus rpm and broke into thir >site uploading it) or they are careless (forgetting to fill the GPL >directory for some packages). In both cases I would not trust them. > > > > If you download the "generic package with source" either rpm or tar.gz, you'll find the GPL directory populated. I've checked again right now, just to be sure. At least, this holds true for hsf modem, which is the one I'm actually using. If you're interested, and have time, you may also estimate if they've implemented in the GPL part all of the critical kernel code (as I had assumed, maybe naively, from a cursory look to the code), leaving in the proprietary binaries only the "proprietary" compression/decompression algorithms, or if they've just provided a minimal wrapper, with all "real" code proprietary. It may make sense not to have anything left in the GPL directory in a binary only .rpm package, because once linked GPL parts cannot be told apart from non-GPL ones. -- Ing. Giuliano Colla Direttore Tecnico Copeca srl Bologna Italy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/