Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264502AbUFTQYN (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:24:13 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264705AbUFTQYN (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:24:13 -0400 Received: from havoc.gtf.org ([216.162.42.101]:14025 "EHLO havoc.gtf.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264502AbUFTQYM (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:24:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 12:24:05 -0400 From: Jeff Garzik To: Rob Landley Cc: Nick Bartos , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Using kernel headers that are not for the running kernel Message-ID: <20040620162405.GA16038@havoc.gtf.org> References: <53712.192.168.1.12.1087514884.squirrel@192.168.1.12> <200406190546.50166.rob@landley.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200406190546.50166.rob@landley.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 1565 Lines: 33 On Sat, Jun 19, 2004 at 05:46:50AM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: > The linux-kernel maintainers apparently decided that C libraries using kernel > headers to actually interface with the kernel was a bad idea. Apparently, > interfacing with the kernel from a C library is not a proper use for kernel > headers, or something. (I tried to follow the logic in this discussion, but > never actually found any, despite repeated attempts. It always seemed to > boil down to "can't be bothered", "userspace shouldn't use kernel headers and > this includes the C library", etc...) No, the problem is that the only thing that needs to be shared are the _ABI_ headers, which are unfortunately mixed in with kernel-internal headers and definitions. This leads to use of kernel-internal definitions in userspace, which leads to breakage. This also leads to restrictions on changing -kernel-internal- headers, because some userspace wanker is complaining. Kernel-internal headers and definitions should absolutely never be used in userspace. H. Peter Anvin has suggested an include/abi which could be shared, and this seem quite reasonable to me. However, the monumental task of separating kernel-internal definitions from ABI definitions still remains. Jeff, really glad the linux-libc-headers guys started his effort - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/