Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S269152AbUIBWn3 (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:43:29 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S269185AbUIBWmU (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:42:20 -0400 Received: from inti.inf.utfsm.cl ([200.1.21.155]:5336 "EHLO inti.inf.utfsm.cl") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S269152AbUIBWhV (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Sep 2004 18:37:21 -0400 Message-Id: <200409022200.i82M0ihC026321@laptop11.inf.utfsm.cl> To: Lee Revell cc: Pavel Machek , Spam , Horst von Brand , Jamie Lokier , David Masover , Chris Wedgwood , viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk, Linus Torvalds , Christoph Hellwig , Hans Reiser , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 In-Reply-To: Message from Lee Revell of "Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:01:17 -0400." <1094155277.11364.92.camel@krustophenia.net> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.2; nmh 1.0.4; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 15) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:00:44 -0400 From: Horst von Brand Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Length: 3381 Lines: 70 Lee Revell said: > To: Pavel Machek > Cc: Spam , Horst von Brand , > Jamie Lokier , David Masover , > Chris Wedgwood , viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk, > Linus Torvalds , Christoph Hellwig , > Hans Reiser , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, > linux-kernel , > Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , > ReiserFS List > X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 > Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 16:01:17 -0400 > > On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 15:49, Pavel Machek wrote: [...] > > You really need archive support in find. At the very least you need > > option "enter archives" vs. "do not enter archives". Entering archives > > automagically is seriously wrong. I have used find(1) for quite some time now, and have never (or very rarely) missed this. > But is it efficient to make every application that reads files have to > know how to get inside a tar file, just to read its contents? Totally ridiculous, especially if you factor in .gz, .bz2, .zip, .a, .whatever.new.format.they.come.up.with.tomorrow. But then again, this would presumably reside in a (shared) library, so it isn't so bad... > That > seems like a massive duplication of effort. Right. tar, gzip, bunzip, et al are already around. > Better to have the contents > accessible via a separate stream, in the same namespace. Fix it once in > the kernel vs. fix it in umpteen apps. Dead wrong. It is better to fix it in userspace (via a library, if required; could call random unpacking etc programs at will, even be configured on a user-by-user basis through ~/.wacky-file-handling or environment) than force this junk into the kernel. Kernel code is _always_ resident, extremely security critical, and hard to get right. Besides, not everybody will want to carry this around, and so it will forever stay a "weird Linux kernel configuration only" feature, i.e., useless in practice. > The key point here is that the expressive power of the system is greatly > reduced by having a fragmented namespace. Of course there are any > number of ways for an app to find out what is in a tar file, but > exporting all of that information in a unified namespace is nontrivial > and much more interesting. I don't see how it is "nontrivial": "tar tf some.tar" is quite enough to find out what is inside, in a customary format. Placing random junk in the kernel doesn't magically make it fast, right, or useful. Quite a lot of work is required for that, much more than for getting the same in userland. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand User #22616 counter.li.org Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, Chile Fax: +56 32 797513 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/